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USB-C definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. USB-C support on Linux

USB-C definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. USB-C support on Linux is still pretty odd. If I disconnect my displays from USB-C and then re-connect them, Wayland treats them as new displays, ie. disconnecting DP-1 and reconnecting it turns it into DP-2, etc.

onli 8y ago
That seems to work just fine under X...
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  Wayland definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. Etc.
  - chmln 8y ago
    Wayland is not the default on most Linux distributions for a reason and likely won't be for a while. Surprised to see it picked as a foundation as it is not mature at all, despite the protocol being around for a decade now.
    - jniedrauer 8y ago
      Wayland is the default on Fedora. I've been using it exclusively for around 2 years now. Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. The sooner adoption happens, the sooner the edge cases will be worked out.
      - chmln 8y ago
        > Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. Why's that? Genuinely curious as I always have the exact opposite experience. I've found both gnome wayland and sway matching neither x11's features nor performance
        AsyncAwait 8y ago
        At least on my AMD box, Wayland is considerably smoother than X.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        The main reason for me is HiDPI support. Scaling works extremely well in wayland, and I can set scaling per-display. HiDPI support on X is an afterthought at best.
        ndnxhs 8y ago
        Does fractional scailing work yet. I have 1080p on a small laptop and the text is too small to read but 2x is huge. Currently I just have large text enabled in accessibility mode.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        It does, yes. Quite well. I have one of my displays at 1.5x scale.
        rhodysurf 8y ago
        Its so much smoother for me as long as I dont use an NVIDIA laptop
    - gh02t 8y ago
      It makes more sense when you remember that they are building the whole software stack, or at least have a lot of control over it. A lot of Wayland's issues are with backwards compatibility, but Librem doesn't have to deal with that as much, plus they have a defined set of hardware so driver support issues are much less of a problem.
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    My only device actually running Wayland is my AsteroidOS watch.
- abrowne 8y ago
  "The Librem 5 will be using native Wayland applications exclusively" Source: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/
- floatboth 8y ago
  If "DP-1 turns into DP-2", that's certainly a problem way below the X/Wayland layer.
  - onli 8y ago
    It sounds like an udev issue. But re-connecting displays works for me with USB-C. And Wayland has still very strange bugs, for example, on my workstation the login (powered by Wayland under Ubuntu) freezes upon selecting the user and again when entering a password until you move the mouse long enough in circles [0]. So somehow the user input treatment (and, secondary, rendering) is linked to the mouse input. If wayland can manage that, it can mess up on the xrandr layer equivalent and change the display enumeration. [0]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1778566 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/177856..., I reported the bug
izacus 8y ago
Thing is though, USB-C dongles have gotten really common and easy to find. Not to mention versatile - I can plug my S9 into the MacBook dongle and I get monitor output, sound, keyboard, mouse and Ethernet working just like on the Mac.
- j45 8y ago
  Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive and speaks to how much longer than everyone else they've been working on a mobile docking solution. In the past the Android phones weren't fast enough and the software was lacking. While Samsung's desktop experience is improving.. Samsungs inadequate commitment to regular (and up to date) patches on a monthly basis will remain to be their Achilles heel at a professional and consumer level. I prefer my Galaxy Note to a Pixel but can't compared to a phone that is honestly and regularly updated.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    > Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive The dock is nice. The software-driven desktop experience is extremely subpar, and I'm confident that the Librem OS will be vastly better than that.
    - j45 8y ago
      I really hope some desktop first experience from librem will do it. The only other new device that captured my attention little was the essential, but their camera did their phone in. I hope Librem can get past that.
      - zozbot123 8y ago
        That and the lack of a headphone jack.
detaro 8y ago
They say the finished phone will have USB-C. the mini-HDMI is just for the dev kits.

onli 8y ago

That seems to work just fine under X...

jniedrauer 8y ago
Wayland definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. Etc.
- chmln 8y ago
  Wayland is not the default on most Linux distributions for a reason and likely won't be for a while. Surprised to see it picked as a foundation as it is not mature at all, despite the protocol being around for a decade now.
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    Wayland is the default on Fedora. I've been using it exclusively for around 2 years now. Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. The sooner adoption happens, the sooner the edge cases will be worked out.
    - chmln 8y ago
      > Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. Why's that? Genuinely curious as I always have the exact opposite experience. I've found both gnome wayland and sway matching neither x11's features nor performance
      - AsyncAwait 8y ago
        At least on my AMD box, Wayland is considerably smoother than X.
      - jniedrauer 8y ago
        The main reason for me is HiDPI support. Scaling works extremely well in wayland, and I can set scaling per-display. HiDPI support on X is an afterthought at best.
        ndnxhs 8y ago
        Does fractional scailing work yet. I have 1080p on a small laptop and the text is too small to read but 2x is huge. Currently I just have large text enabled in accessibility mode.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        It does, yes. Quite well. I have one of my displays at 1.5x scale.
      - rhodysurf 8y ago
        Its so much smoother for me as long as I dont use an NVIDIA laptop
  - gh02t 8y ago
    It makes more sense when you remember that they are building the whole software stack, or at least have a lot of control over it. A lot of Wayland's issues are with backwards compatibility, but Librem doesn't have to deal with that as much, plus they have a defined set of hardware so driver support issues are much less of a problem.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  My only device actually running Wayland is my AsteroidOS watch.
abrowne 8y ago
"The Librem 5 will be using native Wayland applications exclusively" Source: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/
floatboth 8y ago
If "DP-1 turns into DP-2", that's certainly a problem way below the X/Wayland layer.
- onli 8y ago
  It sounds like an udev issue. But re-connecting displays works for me with USB-C. And Wayland has still very strange bugs, for example, on my workstation the login (powered by Wayland under Ubuntu) freezes upon selecting the user and again when entering a password until you move the mouse long enough in circles [0]. So somehow the user input treatment (and, secondary, rendering) is linked to the mouse input. If wayland can manage that, it can mess up on the xrandr layer equivalent and change the display enumeration. [0]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1778566 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/177856..., I reported the bug

izacus 8y ago

Thing is though, USB-C dongles have gotten really common and easy to find. Not to mention versatile - I can plug my S9 into the MacBook dongle and I get monitor output, sound, keyboard, mouse and Ethernet working just like on the Mac.

j45 8y ago
Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive and speaks to how much longer than everyone else they've been working on a mobile docking solution. In the past the Android phones weren't fast enough and the software was lacking. While Samsung's desktop experience is improving.. Samsungs inadequate commitment to regular (and up to date) patches on a monthly basis will remain to be their Achilles heel at a professional and consumer level. I prefer my Galaxy Note to a Pixel but can't compared to a phone that is honestly and regularly updated.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  > Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive The dock is nice. The software-driven desktop experience is extremely subpar, and I'm confident that the Librem OS will be vastly better than that.
  - j45 8y ago
    I really hope some desktop first experience from librem will do it. The only other new device that captured my attention little was the essential, but their camera did their phone in. I hope Librem can get past that.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      That and the lack of a headphone jack.

detaro 8y ago

They say the finished phone will have USB-C. the mini-HDMI is just for the dev kits.