4 ms·

A very cool plugin. I really like the idea of the easier A/B testing of pages. A question, though. Are there any ramifications for selling the templates/plugin

A very cool plugin. I really like the idea of the easier A/B testing of pages. A question, though. Are there any ramifications for selling the templates/plugin with WordPress and the GPL?

jacobroufa 16y ago
I'm confused as to this selling thing as well... I can understand developing something like this for a client's project and selling it to them as a part of your work... but selling it to the community? This is why I use Drupal.
- ktsmith 16y ago
  Drupal is also licensed under the GPL and there is also a thriving community selling commercial drupal plugins and themes. The code that constitutes a derivative work of drupal must be licensed GPL and the rest can be distributed under whatever license you want. If you look at http://woothemes.com http://woothemes.com you'll see they've been very successful selling wordpress themes and support of those themes. I don't see how there is any difference between drupal and wordpress in this case.
  - jacobroufa 16y ago
    The majority of people/groups I see selling Drupal stuff sell themes which I see as legitimate... It takes a lot of work to make a well-written theme and once someone buys the theme, while GPL'ed it's possible to redistribute for free but why would you want someone else to use "your look"? Selling modules and functionality on the other hand... well, I suppose it's possible but why do it? Isn't the point of using software like Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, et al to be a part of a larger Open Source community? I know I would never sell a module or theme rather than release it to the community, because that's what's been done by my predecessors in the community. I would be out of a job if that community didn't exist because by myself I don't have the resources, talent, and myriad of other attributes required to put together as complete and functional a product. There's a good thread here http://drupal.org/node/237682 http://drupal.org/node/237682 discussing just this and the general consensus seems to be that it's possible but generally harmful to the community. I think this applies not only to Drupal but to every Open Source project in general.
    - ktsmith 16y ago
      > The majority of people/groups I see selling Drupal stuff sell themes which I see as legitimate... It takes a lot of work to make a well-written theme It takes an equal amount of time and effort, and in many cases significantly more, to make a module. As a developer it's hard to argue that the time spent isn't worth something. If that project is the only project worked on by a developer continued work and development may not even be possible without charging for the software. Certainly their work can then be redistributed for free, but that's a risk the developer can choose to take and offset with value added services such as official support for the module. When the module doesn't work for someone that got it for free they then also have the option of turning away support requests from that person or trying to sell them support. I don't see how this is any less legitimate than making themes. > Isn't the point of using software like Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, et al to be a part of a larger Open Source community? I've been involved with a bunch of open source projects and the majority of the users don't really seem to know or care where the software came from. They care that it works the way they want. The fact that it's "free' is a bonus typically but many would willingly pay for it. That's part of the reason Red Hat makes money and other companies supporting open source make a lot of money. > I know I would never sell a module or theme rather than release it to the community, because that's what's been done by my predecessors in the community. That's great, and that's a choice that works for you. It likely doesn't work for everyone. One of the nice things about the GPL is that it allows each end user of the software to use it as they see fit so long as the same rights are extended to the next person it is shared with. > There's a good thread here http://drupal.org/node/237682 http://drupal.org/node/237682 discussing just this and the general consensus seems to be that it's possible but generally harmful to the community. I think this applies not only to Drupal but to every Open Source project in general. Unfortunately that thread, like so many others, is filled with a lot of incorrect information about the GPL and it's very hard to find the valid information within all the noise. Selling open source software has worked extremely well for a large number of companies. There are and have been numerous companies that have helped grow open source communities and projects through their charging for open source software or addon services. Red Hat, Cygnus, VA (Research/Linux/Software/Whatever they are this week), etc. I would recommend reading the gnu.org page on the philosophy of selling open source software. One of the key lines is: > Distributing free software is an opportunity to raise funds for development. Don't waste it! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
javery 16y ago
Thanks - we have some big plans to make it even better in the next release. Wordpress and the GPL: There is a thriving commercial WordPress plugin market out there so I didn't spend too much time thinking about this and we just dove in. If it becomes an issue down the line there are plenty of ways to make money on GPL products.
SabrinaDent 16y ago
Selling WP Themes and the GPL: http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=869 http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=vie... All PHP files (with WP code) must be distributed with a GPL license. Images, stylesheets, and JavaScripts do not need to be and can be sold commercially.
- ktsmith 16y ago
  To be clear, you may still charge for the PHP code it however must be distributed under the GPL license and no additional restrictions may be made. If maxfoundry is distributing the entire package as GPL (including images, js, css) then their current license pricing may not hold up as the single/multi site restriction should violate the GPL.
  - templaedhel 16y ago
    Which of course explains the WP theme markets ability to function.
slouch 16y ago
it's ok to charge for GPL code! you just can't get mad when one of your customers wants to resell or distribute it for free.
- slouch 16y ago
  after seeing this plugin launch today, i wondered if it would work well with my Landing page triggers plugin (6$) that redirects users after they leave a comment, publish a post, log in or out. http://www.tacticaltechnique.com/landing-page-triggers-wordpress-plugin/ http://www.tacticaltechnique.com/landing-page-triggers-wordp...

A very cool plugin. I really like the idea of the easier A/B testing of pages. A question, though. Are there any ramifications for selling the templates/plugin with WordPress and the GPL?

jacobroufa 16y ago

I'm confused as to this selling thing as well... I can understand developing something like this for a client's project and selling it to them as a part of your work... but selling it to the community? This is why I use Drupal.

ktsmith 16y ago
Drupal is also licensed under the GPL and there is also a thriving community selling commercial drupal plugins and themes. The code that constitutes a derivative work of drupal must be licensed GPL and the rest can be distributed under whatever license you want. If you look at http://woothemes.com http://woothemes.com you'll see they've been very successful selling wordpress themes and support of those themes. I don't see how there is any difference between drupal and wordpress in this case.
- jacobroufa 16y ago
  The majority of people/groups I see selling Drupal stuff sell themes which I see as legitimate... It takes a lot of work to make a well-written theme and once someone buys the theme, while GPL'ed it's possible to redistribute for free but why would you want someone else to use "your look"? Selling modules and functionality on the other hand... well, I suppose it's possible but why do it? Isn't the point of using software like Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, et al to be a part of a larger Open Source community? I know I would never sell a module or theme rather than release it to the community, because that's what's been done by my predecessors in the community. I would be out of a job if that community didn't exist because by myself I don't have the resources, talent, and myriad of other attributes required to put together as complete and functional a product. There's a good thread here http://drupal.org/node/237682 http://drupal.org/node/237682 discussing just this and the general consensus seems to be that it's possible but generally harmful to the community. I think this applies not only to Drupal but to every Open Source project in general.
  - ktsmith 16y ago
    > The majority of people/groups I see selling Drupal stuff sell themes which I see as legitimate... It takes a lot of work to make a well-written theme It takes an equal amount of time and effort, and in many cases significantly more, to make a module. As a developer it's hard to argue that the time spent isn't worth something. If that project is the only project worked on by a developer continued work and development may not even be possible without charging for the software. Certainly their work can then be redistributed for free, but that's a risk the developer can choose to take and offset with value added services such as official support for the module. When the module doesn't work for someone that got it for free they then also have the option of turning away support requests from that person or trying to sell them support. I don't see how this is any less legitimate than making themes. > Isn't the point of using software like Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, et al to be a part of a larger Open Source community? I've been involved with a bunch of open source projects and the majority of the users don't really seem to know or care where the software came from. They care that it works the way they want. The fact that it's "free' is a bonus typically but many would willingly pay for it. That's part of the reason Red Hat makes money and other companies supporting open source make a lot of money. > I know I would never sell a module or theme rather than release it to the community, because that's what's been done by my predecessors in the community. That's great, and that's a choice that works for you. It likely doesn't work for everyone. One of the nice things about the GPL is that it allows each end user of the software to use it as they see fit so long as the same rights are extended to the next person it is shared with. > There's a good thread here http://drupal.org/node/237682 http://drupal.org/node/237682 discussing just this and the general consensus seems to be that it's possible but generally harmful to the community. I think this applies not only to Drupal but to every Open Source project in general. Unfortunately that thread, like so many others, is filled with a lot of incorrect information about the GPL and it's very hard to find the valid information within all the noise. Selling open source software has worked extremely well for a large number of companies. There are and have been numerous companies that have helped grow open source communities and projects through their charging for open source software or addon services. Red Hat, Cygnus, VA (Research/Linux/Software/Whatever they are this week), etc. I would recommend reading the gnu.org page on the philosophy of selling open source software. One of the key lines is: > Distributing free software is an opportunity to raise funds for development. Don't waste it! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

javery 16y ago

Thanks - we have some big plans to make it even better in the next release. Wordpress and the GPL: There is a thriving commercial WordPress plugin market out there so I didn't spend too much time thinking about this and we just dove in. If it becomes an issue down the line there are plenty of ways to make money on GPL products.

SabrinaDent 16y ago

Selling WP Themes and the GPL: http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=869 http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=vie... All PHP files (with WP code) must be distributed with a GPL license. Images, stylesheets, and JavaScripts do not need to be and can be sold commercially.

ktsmith 16y ago
To be clear, you may still charge for the PHP code it however must be distributed under the GPL license and no additional restrictions may be made. If maxfoundry is distributing the entire package as GPL (including images, js, css) then their current license pricing may not hold up as the single/multi site restriction should violate the GPL.
- templaedhel 16y ago
  Which of course explains the WP theme markets ability to function.

slouch 16y ago

it's ok to charge for GPL code! you just can't get mad when one of your customers wants to resell or distribute it for free.

slouch 16y ago
after seeing this plugin launch today, i wondered if it would work well with my Landing page triggers plugin (6$) that redirects users after they leave a comment, publish a post, log in or out. http://www.tacticaltechnique.com/landing-page-triggers-wordpress-plugin/ http://www.tacticaltechnique.com/landing-page-triggers-wordp...