8 ms·

Lisp Badge – Self-contained ATmega1284 Lisp computer

129 points by lispm 8y ago

pjmlp 8y ago
Love the availability increase in tiny boards with higher level languages. Many of today's microcontrollers, were the PC, Atari, Amigas, Apple of yore and have enough computing power for the same higher level languages we used to develop on. Best wishes of a successful project.
aasasd 8y ago
I wonder if some sort of little 4-way sticks could be used to make the keyboard more compact: each direction would correspond to a separate key. Though I guess it would mean more moving parts to break.
shaunxcode 8y ago
I would for sure order a finished product with some basic enclosure.
- chj 8y ago
  If there is storage. And I wonder about its battery life.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    There is storage: you get 1024 cells, which should be enough for anybody.
- jonathanstrange 8y ago
  Me too, it's awesome. I would pay at least 200 EUR for this device in a sturdy case if it also came with a built-in watch and a little beeper. Provided that the battery lasts long enough - if not, a simple character display would also do. Unfortunately I don't know how to build something like this for myself. :(
- vilts 8y ago
  That was exactly my first thought - I should make a case for it, that'd be cool. Black anodized aluminium would be nice, but then the pushbuttons will look unsightly and having some printed covers for the buttons would make the scope much too big.
- kamaal 8y ago
  +1 It would also help if something like this came in an App. That brings me to the point, are there are any Android apps with builtin paredit, rainbow delim, autocomplete features for something like scheme?
  - dangirsh 8y ago
    Yes, Emacs.
    - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
      I'm not sure there's an app version of Emacs that works on recent versions of Android, but certainly Emacs can be installed in (the Android terminal app) Termux [`pkg install emacs`].
zokier 8y ago
I do have to question the choice of microcontroller here; for the same price you could get ARM Cortex M chips (eg Microchip/Atmel SAM) with order of magnitude more RAM, or at quarter of the cost a chip with similar size. AVRs can be useful for tiny stuff, but they do not really scale to bigger things like this.
- Lerc 8y ago
  I believe anyone who is capable of making one of these is well aware that there are more powerful devices available. Perhaps this might indicate that computational power per dollar is not their driving influence.
  - zokier 8y ago
    Seems like result of iterative design from breadboarded 328p[1] to breadboarded 1284[2] to finally this. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I do see ways of iterating the design even further. [1] http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1GX1 http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1GX1 [2] http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1INT http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1INT
- pjmlp 8y ago
  I would say that AVRs are actually a bit bigger than something like an IBM 709. :)
  - zokier 8y ago
    Depends on how you look at it; according to wikipedia 709 had (up to) 32k * 36b main memory, while ATmega1284 has only 16k * 8b of RAM. Funnily also wiki says that 7090 can do about 100k FLOPS; based on quick googling 16 MHz AVR can do roughly 200k FLOPS. So not that dramatic difference there either :) (in case anyone is wondering, AVR is so slow here because it doesn't have fpu. It would probably be much faster for any non-fp code. also any modern 32bitter with fpu would probably crush both)
    - microtherion 8y ago
fu86 8y ago
Thats very nice! I've built a similar thing a couple of years ago: https://aaron-fischer.net/tdn https://aaron-fischer.net/tdn (german)
znpy 8y ago
Tangentially related: I see that the board in question use an array of push buttons to implement the resemblance of a keyboard... Does anybody know of a better way to get a kinda-full keyboard (for example: https://www.tuexperto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung-Galaxy-Chat-00.jpg https://www.tuexperto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung...) in a custom embedded project ?
- nanomonkey 8y ago
  Blackberry 9700 replacement keypads can be placed over metal metal dome switch arrays built into the pcb, similar to what https://greycat.co/goods/ https://greycat.co/goods/ offers.
maxkrieger 8y ago
There is something very whimsical about a pocket-sized lisp machine. I wonder what the experience of (junior?) high school would have been like if students were given something like this instead of a TI-84. Math and science classes could focus on constructing playable models that answered the questions posed by the instructors a la "Structure and Interpretation of Classical Mechanics" [0]. Obviously there are some ergonomics issues but I'm still going to daydream about the concept. If people are interested in these kinds of ideas I highly recommend "Mindstorms" by Seymour Papert [1]. [0] https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/sicm_edition_2/chapter001.html#p62 https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstorms_(book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstorms_(book)
nanomonkey 8y ago
Anyone looking for something similar with a better keyboard, may want to look at the board designed by GreyCat (https://greycat.co/goods/ https://greycat.co/goods/) which comes with a screen, blackberry keyboard, trackpad and LORA module for long range communication as it uses an ATmega2560, so uLisp should work on it also. Personally I wish they'd put a esp32 instead so that wifi would also be available.
- noman-land 8y ago
  Hi, have you ordered one of these personally? I checked out the site and ordered one cuz it's exactly what I need for a project but I've heard absolutely no word from them for over a week. Not a good look.
mmjaa 8y ago
I want this but for Lua. Its my favourite language. I wonder how difficult it would be to get Lua running on this thing - anyone got clues?
- detaro 8y ago
  Not sure about exactly this thing, but there's a few embedded Lua's, e.g. http://www.eluaproject.net/ http://www.eluaproject.net/ or https://github.com/nodemcu/nodemcu-firmware https://github.com/nodemcu/nodemcu-firmware
  - mmjaa 8y ago
    Sure, there are tons of embedded Lua's (that's where it started life after all.. as an embeddable language) - but what I'm really interested in is a one-language mini-computer designed for the thing. I guess I could get this Lisp Badge and put my own Lua on it .. ;)

129 points by lispm 8y ago

Love the availability increase in tiny boards with higher level languages. Many of today's microcontrollers, were the PC, Atari, Amigas, Apple of yore and have enough computing power for the same higher level languages we used to develop on. Best wishes of a successful project.

aasasd 8y ago

I wonder if some sort of little 4-way sticks could be used to make the keyboard more compact: each direction would correspond to a separate key. Though I guess it would mean more moving parts to break.

shaunxcode 8y ago

I would for sure order a finished product with some basic enclosure.

chj 8y ago
If there is storage. And I wonder about its battery life.
- pjc50 8y ago
  There is storage: you get 1024 cells, which should be enough for anybody.
jonathanstrange 8y ago
Me too, it's awesome. I would pay at least 200 EUR for this device in a sturdy case if it also came with a built-in watch and a little beeper. Provided that the battery lasts long enough - if not, a simple character display would also do. Unfortunately I don't know how to build something like this for myself. :(
vilts 8y ago
That was exactly my first thought - I should make a case for it, that'd be cool. Black anodized aluminium would be nice, but then the pushbuttons will look unsightly and having some printed covers for the buttons would make the scope much too big.
kamaal 8y ago
+1 It would also help if something like this came in an App. That brings me to the point, are there are any Android apps with builtin paredit, rainbow delim, autocomplete features for something like scheme?
- dangirsh 8y ago
  Yes, Emacs.
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    I'm not sure there's an app version of Emacs that works on recent versions of Android, but certainly Emacs can be installed in (the Android terminal app) Termux [`pkg install emacs`].

zokier 8y ago

I do have to question the choice of microcontroller here; for the same price you could get ARM Cortex M chips (eg Microchip/Atmel SAM) with order of magnitude more RAM, or at quarter of the cost a chip with similar size. AVRs can be useful for tiny stuff, but they do not really scale to bigger things like this.

Lerc 8y ago
I believe anyone who is capable of making one of these is well aware that there are more powerful devices available. Perhaps this might indicate that computational power per dollar is not their driving influence.
- zokier 8y ago
  Seems like result of iterative design from breadboarded 328p[1] to breadboarded 1284[2] to finally this. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I do see ways of iterating the design even further. [1] http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1GX1 http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1GX1 [2] http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1INT http://www.technoblogy.com/show?1INT
pjmlp 8y ago
I would say that AVRs are actually a bit bigger than something like an IBM 709. :)
- zokier 8y ago
  Depends on how you look at it; according to wikipedia 709 had (up to) 32k * 36b main memory, while ATmega1284 has only 16k * 8b of RAM. Funnily also wiki says that 7090 can do about 100k FLOPS; based on quick googling 16 MHz AVR can do roughly 200k FLOPS. So not that dramatic difference there either :) (in case anyone is wondering, AVR is so slow here because it doesn't have fpu. It would probably be much faster for any non-fp code. also any modern 32bitter with fpu would probably crush both)
  - microtherion 8y ago

fu86 8y ago

Thats very nice! I've built a similar thing a couple of years ago: https://aaron-fischer.net/tdn https://aaron-fischer.net/tdn (german)

znpy 8y ago

Tangentially related: I see that the board in question use an array of push buttons to implement the resemblance of a keyboard... Does anybody know of a better way to get a kinda-full keyboard (for example: https://www.tuexperto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung-Galaxy-Chat-00.jpg https://www.tuexperto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung...) in a custom embedded project ?

nanomonkey 8y ago
Blackberry 9700 replacement keypads can be placed over metal metal dome switch arrays built into the pcb, similar to what https://greycat.co/goods/ https://greycat.co/goods/ offers.

maxkrieger 8y ago

There is something very whimsical about a pocket-sized lisp machine. I wonder what the experience of (junior?) high school would have been like if students were given something like this instead of a TI-84. Math and science classes could focus on constructing playable models that answered the questions posed by the instructors a la "Structure and Interpretation of Classical Mechanics" [0]. Obviously there are some ergonomics issues but I'm still going to daydream about the concept. If people are interested in these kinds of ideas I highly recommend "Mindstorms" by Seymour Papert [1]. [0] https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/sicm_edition_2/chapter001.html#p62 https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstorms_(book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstorms_(book)

nanomonkey 8y ago

Anyone looking for something similar with a better keyboard, may want to look at the board designed by GreyCat (https://greycat.co/goods/ https://greycat.co/goods/) which comes with a screen, blackberry keyboard, trackpad and LORA module for long range communication as it uses an ATmega2560, so uLisp should work on it also. Personally I wish they'd put a esp32 instead so that wifi would also be available.

noman-land 8y ago
Hi, have you ordered one of these personally? I checked out the site and ordered one cuz it's exactly what I need for a project but I've heard absolutely no word from them for over a week. Not a good look.

mmjaa 8y ago

I want this but for Lua. Its my favourite language. I wonder how difficult it would be to get Lua running on this thing - anyone got clues?

detaro 8y ago
Not sure about exactly this thing, but there's a few embedded Lua's, e.g. http://www.eluaproject.net/ http://www.eluaproject.net/ or https://github.com/nodemcu/nodemcu-firmware https://github.com/nodemcu/nodemcu-firmware
- mmjaa 8y ago
  Sure, there are tons of embedded Lua's (that's where it started life after all.. as an embeddable language) - but what I'm really interested in is a one-language mini-computer designed for the thing. I guess I could get this Lisp Badge and put my own Lua on it .. ;)