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I would also say that Apple has plenty of rough spots that Linux doesn't as well. Font rendering the Apple way is a style choice at best. What does "display/c

by larrik 8y ago

I would also say that Apple has plenty of rough spots that Linux doesn't as well. Font rendering the Apple way is a style choice at best. What does "display/compositor fragmentation" mean to end-user?

akiselev 8y ago
> What does "display/compositor fragmentation" mean to end-user? My 1Password FireFox extension (ubuntu 18.04 LTS) doesn't work on X unless I log in through the website but it works just fine on Wayland.
- vetinari 8y ago
  What is your X session? Gnome/KDE or plain window manager? It might be, that your wm is not launching some service that wayland session is and 1password needs.
  - pdpi 8y ago
    The fact that you're asking this question and suggesting that root cause is itself a significant part of the problem the OP was talking about.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      Unfortunately, the openness allows for so much flexibility, that many people end up breaking it up. Invariably, they will blame the system and not their changes. If they used the defaults, like they do in other systems, it would not happen.
      - joombaga 8y ago
        In this case though LastPass is broken in Firefox on Ubuntu by default. Edit: akiselev said 1Password, not LastPass. My mistake. Interesting that I experienced this same issue with LastPass.
        vetinari 8y ago
        It turns out to be ubuntu bug: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/90011/p1 https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/90011/p1
  - akiselev 8y ago
    This was a clean install so Gnome shell - worked just fine on Ubuntu 17.10 and 18.10 with X and Wayland. After I login through the 1password website, the extension window opens just fine so it might be some input security service, but how would a Firefox extension even have access to a system service like that except through Firefox's built in APIs?
    - vetinari 8y ago
      I don't know how 1password works; I'm using keepassxc. With keepassxc you have native application and extension, that communicate together via socket. The native application can use whatever native APIs it wants. However, back to you. What's more weird, if it is pure Firefox Webextension, that Firefox (still by default) launches as X11 application under Wayland, so the extension should have no way to know the difference.
- Tehchops 8y ago
  ^^ Things exactly like this. The practical implications of what it means to the end user is that companies/entities that write any GUI-enabled software for Linux are forced to make decisions about what(if any) OS they'll support. And just like that, we've waded into "cracking open the window manager" just to figure out what's going on.
- beyer 8y ago
  > My 1Password FireFox extension (ubuntu 18.04 LTS) doesn't work on X unless I log in through the website but it works just fine on Wayland. Hey there! Beyer from 1Password here. It sounds like your issue might be related to my post here: https://goo.gl/cdhFbz https://goo.gl/cdhFbz The good news is the underlying bug that was "breaking password fields in Firefox" was recently resolved. You can read about it here: https://goo.gl/uFv5rL https://goo.gl/uFv5rL If you are still having an issue using 1Password X after updating gnome-shell, please reach out to us at support+x@1password.com, and we'd be happy to help! Thanks for using 1Password!
dictum 8y ago
> Font rendering the Apple way is a style choice at best. Given how much of a hacker's usage of a computer is working with text (reading pages, writing code and documentation, taking notes) it's a style choice that actually has a significant impact. (By the way, macOS Mojave deprecates subpixel antialiasing — a poor decision when there are many non-hidpi displays still being used)
- sbov 8y ago
  I've used both macbooks and linux and have never noticed a difference, so I have no clue what sort of impact I'm supposed to be noticing.
  - qznc 8y ago
    I remember a decade ago when there was more discussion about it the rought situation was: OS X fonts were "blurry" because the font rendering was optimized for stay true to the font shape. Microsoft was "crisp but kerning broken" because the font rendering optimized for pixel alignment, so less grey pixels but shapes moved slightly to fit pixel borders. Linux was somewhere in between however you configured it. That was the time of sub-100dpi screens though. With 300dpi (Retina) screens these days it does not matter much anymore.
- jamie_ca 8y ago
  Yeah. I've got a 1440p 27" monitor that I connect via HDMI (USB-C adapter dock thingy) and the difference when I upgraded to Mojave was very stark. I actually prefer Windows rendering now to Mac.

by larrik 8y ago

akiselev 8y ago

> What does "display/compositor fragmentation" mean to end-user? My 1Password FireFox extension (ubuntu 18.04 LTS) doesn't work on X unless I log in through the website but it works just fine on Wayland.

vetinari 8y ago
What is your X session? Gnome/KDE or plain window manager? It might be, that your wm is not launching some service that wayland session is and 1password needs.
- pdpi 8y ago
  The fact that you're asking this question and suggesting that root cause is itself a significant part of the problem the OP was talking about.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    Unfortunately, the openness allows for so much flexibility, that many people end up breaking it up. Invariably, they will blame the system and not their changes. If they used the defaults, like they do in other systems, it would not happen.
    - joombaga 8y ago
      In this case though LastPass is broken in Firefox on Ubuntu by default. Edit: akiselev said 1Password, not LastPass. My mistake. Interesting that I experienced this same issue with LastPass.
      - vetinari 8y ago
        It turns out to be ubuntu bug: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/90011/p1 https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/90011/p1
- akiselev 8y ago
  This was a clean install so Gnome shell - worked just fine on Ubuntu 17.10 and 18.10 with X and Wayland. After I login through the 1password website, the extension window opens just fine so it might be some input security service, but how would a Firefox extension even have access to a system service like that except through Firefox's built in APIs?
  - vetinari 8y ago
    I don't know how 1password works; I'm using keepassxc. With keepassxc you have native application and extension, that communicate together via socket. The native application can use whatever native APIs it wants. However, back to you. What's more weird, if it is pure Firefox Webextension, that Firefox (still by default) launches as X11 application under Wayland, so the extension should have no way to know the difference.
Tehchops 8y ago
^^ Things exactly like this. The practical implications of what it means to the end user is that companies/entities that write any GUI-enabled software for Linux are forced to make decisions about what(if any) OS they'll support. And just like that, we've waded into "cracking open the window manager" just to figure out what's going on.
beyer 8y ago
> My 1Password FireFox extension (ubuntu 18.04 LTS) doesn't work on X unless I log in through the website but it works just fine on Wayland. Hey there! Beyer from 1Password here. It sounds like your issue might be related to my post here: https://goo.gl/cdhFbz https://goo.gl/cdhFbz The good news is the underlying bug that was "breaking password fields in Firefox" was recently resolved. You can read about it here: https://goo.gl/uFv5rL https://goo.gl/uFv5rL If you are still having an issue using 1Password X after updating gnome-shell, please reach out to us at support+x@1password.com, and we'd be happy to help! Thanks for using 1Password!

dictum 8y ago

> Font rendering the Apple way is a style choice at best. Given how much of a hacker's usage of a computer is working with text (reading pages, writing code and documentation, taking notes) it's a style choice that actually has a significant impact. (By the way, macOS Mojave deprecates subpixel antialiasing — a poor decision when there are many non-hidpi displays still being used)

sbov 8y ago
I've used both macbooks and linux and have never noticed a difference, so I have no clue what sort of impact I'm supposed to be noticing.
- qznc 8y ago
  I remember a decade ago when there was more discussion about it the rought situation was: OS X fonts were "blurry" because the font rendering was optimized for stay true to the font shape. Microsoft was "crisp but kerning broken" because the font rendering optimized for pixel alignment, so less grey pixels but shapes moved slightly to fit pixel borders. Linux was somewhere in between however you configured it. That was the time of sub-100dpi screens though. With 300dpi (Retina) screens these days it does not matter much anymore.
jamie_ca 8y ago
Yeah. I've got a 1440p 27" monitor that I connect via HDMI (USB-C adapter dock thingy) and the difference when I upgraded to Mojave was very stark. I actually prefer Windows rendering now to Mac.