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I feel like people are missing the mark here, complaining about commercial game engines. SpatialOS was basically re-distributing Unity under a SaaS model. Unit

by tcfunk 8y ago

I feel like people are missing the mark here, complaining about commercial game engines. SpatialOS was basically re-distributing Unity under a SaaS model. Unity is in the right here. Edit: Have heard some pretty good points about the ambiguous wording of the ToS (such as theoretically making the distribution of a Unity-made game through a storefront illegal). It will be interesting to see if this ToS change sticks.

wishinghand 8y ago
No, Spatial was not doing that, they are an integration with Unity. Developers still needed to install Unity with a license, get the SpatialOS framework running as their net code, and then write a game.
- tcfunk 8y ago
  I'm not so sure. Maybe I am misunderstanding but the terms prohibit the "use [of] a managed service running on cloud infrastructure...to install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server". Which leads me to believe they are installing or running the Unity Runtime on their servers? If not I'd love a better explanation :)
  - vorpalhex 8y ago
    If I write a Java app and run it on AWS, I'm in the clear. If I write a licensed Unity app and run it on SpatialOS, well, that's now no longer allowed.
  - mattigames 8y ago
    Yes they are running unity runtime on their servers, there is nothing in the TOS against that, what is illegal is to share any of the data from that runtime online with other Unity instances. Which has nothing to do with "re-distributing" Unity has a SAAS.
    - tcfunk 8y ago
      Re-distributing was the wrong word to use. But it seems to me that the Unity Runtime is a part of the stack of their SaaS.
      - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
        So what?
      - SolarNet 8y ago
        Yes it is specifically the part of their stack that one distributes to customers. It's like if the Java runtime or the DirectX runtime wasn't distributable to cloud machines. Unity had a pretty clear model as providing a software stack that one pays for using, primarily containing a bunch of proprietary tools for creating applications for their runtime. And then one could package that runtime and their application and give it to whoever one wanted (as long as they followed the revenue share part of the contract). So yes it's part of the stack. but it's the part of the stack that people are meant to redistribute with their game.
      - ButlerianHerecy 8y ago
        The EULA bans any SDK, not specifically the GDK which presumably includes some part of Unity in a re-distributable form. If it was only banning the GDK, then developers who want to use SpatialOS could integrate the SDK on their own just like someone who uses CryEngine or builds their own engine instead of using either Unity or Unreal for which the GDKs were created to streamline the process. But the EULA doesn't stop at using Unity on the cloud with an SDK, it bans all use of Unity running on the cloud. "2.4 Streaming and Cloud Gaming Restrictions. You may not directly or indirectly distribute the Unity Software, including the runtime portion of the Unity Software (the “Unity Runtime”), or your Project Content (if it incorporates the Unity Runtime) by means of streaming or broadcasting so that any portion of the Unity Software is primarily executed on or simulated by the cloud or a remote server and transmitted over the Internet or other network to end user devices without a separate license or authorization from Unity. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use a managed service running on cloud infrastructure (a “Managed Service”) or a specific integration of a binary add-on (for example, a plugin or SDK) or source code to be integrated in the Unity Software or Your Project Content incorporating the Unity Runtime (an “SDK Integration”) to install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server, unless such use of the Managed Service or SDK Integration has been specifically authorized by Unity. Additionally, you may not integrate the Unity Runtime with a Managed Service or SDK Integration and offer that integration to third parties for the purpose of installing or using the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server. For a list of Unity authorized streaming platforms, Managed Services and SDK Integrations, click here.This restriction does not prevent end users from remotely accessing your Project Content from an end user device that is running on another end user device. You may not use a third party to directly or indirectly distribute or make available, stream, broadcast (through simulation or otherwise) any portion of the Unity Software unless that third party is authorized by Unity to provide such services."
  - modeless 8y ago
    Perhaps you are unaware that the Unity runtime is royalty free, or at least it has been until now. You can distribute it to an unlimited number of people without paying Unity. What Unity charges for is their developer tools, not the runtime. Since developers using Unity with SpatialOS still need Unity's developer tools, it does not threaten Unity's business model in the slightest. That's why this is surprising.
mattigames 8y ago
Not really, developers were still under the legal obligations of paying Unity if your company had more than $100.000 revenue and all the other contractual clauses.
Prefinem 8y ago
SpatialOS is doing much more than that. It's main goal was bringing a single world spread over multiple server instances instead of individual servers. It's like atlas vs ark, not like unreal vs unity
irq-1 8y ago
Your right. This is about the hosting company running Unity software on the cloud -- something that clearly needs to be licensed by Unity. From Ars https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/unity-engine-tos-change-makes-cloud-based-spatialos-games-illegal/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/unity-engine-tos-chan... > The newly updated clause 2.4 of the Terms of Service now specifically excludes "managed service[s] running on cloud infrastructure" which "install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server."
- mattigames 8y ago
  Re-distrubuting and hosting on the cloud are 2 completely different things, here Spatial isn't streaming the visuals of their instance or anything alike but making sure there is only one state of the game, a pretty useful tool for multiplayer games (avoid cheating, etc)

by tcfunk 8y ago

wishinghand 8y ago

No, Spatial was not doing that, they are an integration with Unity. Developers still needed to install Unity with a license, get the SpatialOS framework running as their net code, and then write a game.

tcfunk 8y ago
I'm not so sure. Maybe I am misunderstanding but the terms prohibit the "use [of] a managed service running on cloud infrastructure...to install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server". Which leads me to believe they are installing or running the Unity Runtime on their servers? If not I'd love a better explanation :)
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  If I write a Java app and run it on AWS, I'm in the clear. If I write a licensed Unity app and run it on SpatialOS, well, that's now no longer allowed.
- mattigames 8y ago
  Yes they are running unity runtime on their servers, there is nothing in the TOS against that, what is illegal is to share any of the data from that runtime online with other Unity instances. Which has nothing to do with "re-distributing" Unity has a SAAS.
  - tcfunk 8y ago
    Re-distributing was the wrong word to use. But it seems to me that the Unity Runtime is a part of the stack of their SaaS.
    - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
      So what?
    - SolarNet 8y ago
      Yes it is specifically the part of their stack that one distributes to customers. It's like if the Java runtime or the DirectX runtime wasn't distributable to cloud machines. Unity had a pretty clear model as providing a software stack that one pays for using, primarily containing a bunch of proprietary tools for creating applications for their runtime. And then one could package that runtime and their application and give it to whoever one wanted (as long as they followed the revenue share part of the contract). So yes it's part of the stack. but it's the part of the stack that people are meant to redistribute with their game.
    - ButlerianHerecy 8y ago
      The EULA bans any SDK, not specifically the GDK which presumably includes some part of Unity in a re-distributable form. If it was only banning the GDK, then developers who want to use SpatialOS could integrate the SDK on their own just like someone who uses CryEngine or builds their own engine instead of using either Unity or Unreal for which the GDKs were created to streamline the process. But the EULA doesn't stop at using Unity on the cloud with an SDK, it bans all use of Unity running on the cloud. "2.4 Streaming and Cloud Gaming Restrictions. You may not directly or indirectly distribute the Unity Software, including the runtime portion of the Unity Software (the “Unity Runtime”), or your Project Content (if it incorporates the Unity Runtime) by means of streaming or broadcasting so that any portion of the Unity Software is primarily executed on or simulated by the cloud or a remote server and transmitted over the Internet or other network to end user devices without a separate license or authorization from Unity. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use a managed service running on cloud infrastructure (a “Managed Service”) or a specific integration of a binary add-on (for example, a plugin or SDK) or source code to be integrated in the Unity Software or Your Project Content incorporating the Unity Runtime (an “SDK Integration”) to install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server, unless such use of the Managed Service or SDK Integration has been specifically authorized by Unity. Additionally, you may not integrate the Unity Runtime with a Managed Service or SDK Integration and offer that integration to third parties for the purpose of installing or using the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server. For a list of Unity authorized streaming platforms, Managed Services and SDK Integrations, click here.This restriction does not prevent end users from remotely accessing your Project Content from an end user device that is running on another end user device. You may not use a third party to directly or indirectly distribute or make available, stream, broadcast (through simulation or otherwise) any portion of the Unity Software unless that third party is authorized by Unity to provide such services."
- modeless 8y ago
  Perhaps you are unaware that the Unity runtime is royalty free, or at least it has been until now. You can distribute it to an unlimited number of people without paying Unity. What Unity charges for is their developer tools, not the runtime. Since developers using Unity with SpatialOS still need Unity's developer tools, it does not threaten Unity's business model in the slightest. That's why this is surprising.

mattigames 8y ago

Not really, developers were still under the legal obligations of paying Unity if your company had more than $100.000 revenue and all the other contractual clauses.

Prefinem 8y ago

SpatialOS is doing much more than that. It's main goal was bringing a single world spread over multiple server instances instead of individual servers. It's like atlas vs ark, not like unreal vs unity

irq-1 8y ago

Your right. This is about the hosting company running Unity software on the cloud -- something that clearly needs to be licensed by Unity. From Ars https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/unity-engine-tos-change-makes-cloud-based-spatialos-games-illegal/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/unity-engine-tos-chan... > The newly updated clause 2.4 of the Terms of Service now specifically excludes "managed service[s] running on cloud infrastructure" which "install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server."

mattigames 8y ago
Re-distrubuting and hosting on the cloud are 2 completely different things, here Spatial isn't streaming the visuals of their instance or anything alike but making sure there is only one state of the game, a pretty useful tool for multiplayer games (avoid cheating, etc)