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When the Millennium Falcon arrived at Alderaan it was established that ships in hyperspace do not interact with physical matter

by gaius 8y ago

krapp 8y ago
Han also mentions "passing through a star" as a danger of hyperspace travel, he doesn't specify that danger as not applying within hyperspace itself. It's not like they put a lot of thought into the way hyperspace actually worked in the OT. Also I'm not aware of anything in established canon that says the transition is instantaneous. It's not impossible that there might be a window when entering or exiting hyperspace during which the mass shadow of the craft (possibly increased exponentially by being accelerated to near light-speed) or the ship itself can interact with normal matter.
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  The effects in all the movies back this up. Ships entering or exiting hyperspace don't just pop in and out (from a third person viewpoint) but actually shoot off or slam in very very quickly. Which infers there's ramp up and down sub-light speeds at each end of the hyperspace journey. likewise, in the cockpit of the Falcon, you see the star trails extend as she makes the makes the jump to lightspeed, before the hyperspace tunnel effect kicks in. As I'm typing this, I'm now actually wondering how 'lightspeed == hyperspace' in the SW universe?
  - gaius 8y ago
    I'm now actually wondering how 'lightspeed == hyperspace' in the SW universe? “Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy.” — Han Solo The terms seem to be used interchangeably.
  - glaurung_ 8y ago
    Complete speculation here, but this is my guess: Once accelerated to/past light speed it is possible to "make the jump to hyperspace" which is like going through some sort of wormhole. This allows a ship to travel from point to point without traversing the space between. Maybe something like taking a straight line instead of following the curvature of space time (yes I know, a bunch of dead physicists just rolled over). This is how, if you don't think too hard, it makes sense that Han says he "made the Kessel run in 12 (13) parsecs," using a measure of distance, rather than speed/time to make his claim. Presumably all long distance space travel is done at roughly the speed of light, so what makes a difference is not how fast you go, but how much of a short cut you manage to make through hyperspace. Feel free to rip this to shreds:)
- jerf 8y ago
  Really, the problem isn't scientific. Various sci-fi authors have created all kinds of "hyperspaces" with well-defined rules that would allow for almost any interpretation. The problem is that it wrecks the drama. Why wasn't this idea used earlier? It's blindingly obvious, not a clever deduction, nor was this some sort of special circumstance (no slingshot around a black hole or some other very unusual thing, for instance). Why won't this be the solution to every battle in the future? Why bother with capital ships if they're so vulnerable to this simple attack? Is the Death Star even necessary if ships can be this powerful on their own? Why did the Rebellion wait so long to deploy this? They'd have been in a wildly better position if they evacuated that ship at the very beginning and used it; the same effect on the enemy, only they have more of their forces left. Why doesn't the Empire, sorry, "First Order" use this on the rebels, sorry, Legitimate Representatives of the Galactic Government Who Are Somehow Still The Rebels? (Although here we come up against the silliness of a sub-light stern chase being the whole movie in a universe with trivial FTL, too. The failures of this movie are like the Shrek onion.) The problem isn't the science, and it isn't even necessarily that the questions are utterly unanswerable, or that if you try hard enough you can fanon the problem away. (Though IMHO in this particular situation, you must fanon very hard.) The problem is that it raised all these questions, and didn't even acknowledge them, let alone try to address them, and that smacks of bad writing. There is this popular idea in the writing world that writing science fiction means you can just do whatever you want, whenever you want. The producers of Star Trek: Voyager, for instance, had this idea and clearly articulated it in interviews. And, well, in some sense it's true, but in the sense that it's true, it's no more true in science fiction than it is in any other medium. Nothing stopped Doyle from Sherlock solving all his mysteries by consulting a medium. Nothing stopped Rian Johnson from solving his problem with this particular ass-pull. But being science fiction doesn't prevent the same dramatic consequence happening to the latter as it would in the former. At best it just gives fans a few more avenues for fanon. But that's not good drama. There are no stakes in a universe where anything can happen at any time. In particular, I'd highlight that whole Empire/rebels thing again, because that's even more important than the scifi tech stuff. There's just no sensible grand-scale interpretation of the legitimate government of the galaxy being chased by some upstart First Order, and the First Order having all the advantages, literally all of them. (Some advantages, sure, especially around having Sith support. But when did the Galactic government get so anemic? We saw much more strength in tangential fights in the prequels.) Honestly the sequels have been screwed up from the getgo because the writers think they can just do whatever they want, whenever they want, and that the quality never suffers for it. They're spending against an account they don't even know exists and overdrew against it so hard that they may have actually spent Star Wars, Star Wars of all things, dry.
benmmurphy 8y ago
I wonder if this was true it wouldn't still be possible to use hyperspace as a weapon. I wonder what would happen if you tried to exit hyperspace in the same position as another ship. Hyperspace feels a lot like teleportation and if you can teleport arbitrary stuff to arbitrary positions then it severely breaks combat and gives you a completely different equilibrium than the StarWars universe. Is there something stopping someone from hyperspacing a small ship with a nuclear warhead into a larger ship?
- dylan604 8y ago
  I think they addressed a similar concept in the tv show “Fringe”. Attempting to move an object from universe to another where something already existed did not end up well.

When the Millennium Falcon arrived at Alderaan it was established that ships in hyperspace do not interact with physical matter

by gaius 8y ago

When the Millennium Falcon arrived at Alderaan it was established that ships in hyperspace do not interact with physical matter

krapp 8y ago

Han also mentions "passing through a star" as a danger of hyperspace travel, he doesn't specify that danger as not applying within hyperspace itself. It's not like they put a lot of thought into the way hyperspace actually worked in the OT. Also I'm not aware of anything in established canon that says the transition is instantaneous. It's not impossible that there might be a window when entering or exiting hyperspace during which the mass shadow of the craft (possibly increased exponentially by being accelerated to near light-speed) or the ship itself can interact with normal matter.

Jaruzel 8y ago
The effects in all the movies back this up. Ships entering or exiting hyperspace don't just pop in and out (from a third person viewpoint) but actually shoot off or slam in very very quickly. Which infers there's ramp up and down sub-light speeds at each end of the hyperspace journey. likewise, in the cockpit of the Falcon, you see the star trails extend as she makes the makes the jump to lightspeed, before the hyperspace tunnel effect kicks in. As I'm typing this, I'm now actually wondering how 'lightspeed == hyperspace' in the SW universe?
- gaius 8y ago
  I'm now actually wondering how 'lightspeed == hyperspace' in the SW universe? “Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy.” — Han Solo The terms seem to be used interchangeably.
- glaurung_ 8y ago
  Complete speculation here, but this is my guess: Once accelerated to/past light speed it is possible to "make the jump to hyperspace" which is like going through some sort of wormhole. This allows a ship to travel from point to point without traversing the space between. Maybe something like taking a straight line instead of following the curvature of space time (yes I know, a bunch of dead physicists just rolled over). This is how, if you don't think too hard, it makes sense that Han says he "made the Kessel run in 12 (13) parsecs," using a measure of distance, rather than speed/time to make his claim. Presumably all long distance space travel is done at roughly the speed of light, so what makes a difference is not how fast you go, but how much of a short cut you manage to make through hyperspace. Feel free to rip this to shreds:)
jerf 8y ago
Really, the problem isn't scientific. Various sci-fi authors have created all kinds of "hyperspaces" with well-defined rules that would allow for almost any interpretation. The problem is that it wrecks the drama. Why wasn't this idea used earlier? It's blindingly obvious, not a clever deduction, nor was this some sort of special circumstance (no slingshot around a black hole or some other very unusual thing, for instance). Why won't this be the solution to every battle in the future? Why bother with capital ships if they're so vulnerable to this simple attack? Is the Death Star even necessary if ships can be this powerful on their own? Why did the Rebellion wait so long to deploy this? They'd have been in a wildly better position if they evacuated that ship at the very beginning and used it; the same effect on the enemy, only they have more of their forces left. Why doesn't the Empire, sorry, "First Order" use this on the rebels, sorry, Legitimate Representatives of the Galactic Government Who Are Somehow Still The Rebels? (Although here we come up against the silliness of a sub-light stern chase being the whole movie in a universe with trivial FTL, too. The failures of this movie are like the Shrek onion.) The problem isn't the science, and it isn't even necessarily that the questions are utterly unanswerable, or that if you try hard enough you can fanon the problem away. (Though IMHO in this particular situation, you must fanon very hard.) The problem is that it raised all these questions, and didn't even acknowledge them, let alone try to address them, and that smacks of bad writing. There is this popular idea in the writing world that writing science fiction means you can just do whatever you want, whenever you want. The producers of Star Trek: Voyager, for instance, had this idea and clearly articulated it in interviews. And, well, in some sense it's true, but in the sense that it's true, it's no more true in science fiction than it is in any other medium. Nothing stopped Doyle from Sherlock solving all his mysteries by consulting a medium. Nothing stopped Rian Johnson from solving his problem with this particular ass-pull. But being science fiction doesn't prevent the same dramatic consequence happening to the latter as it would in the former. At best it just gives fans a few more avenues for fanon. But that's not good drama. There are no stakes in a universe where anything can happen at any time. In particular, I'd highlight that whole Empire/rebels thing again, because that's even more important than the scifi tech stuff. There's just no sensible grand-scale interpretation of the legitimate government of the galaxy being chased by some upstart First Order, and the First Order having all the advantages, literally all of them. (Some advantages, sure, especially around having Sith support. But when did the Galactic government get so anemic? We saw much more strength in tangential fights in the prequels.) Honestly the sequels have been screwed up from the getgo because the writers think they can just do whatever they want, whenever they want, and that the quality never suffers for it. They're spending against an account they don't even know exists and overdrew against it so hard that they may have actually spent Star Wars, Star Wars of all things, dry.

benmmurphy 8y ago

I wonder if this was true it wouldn't still be possible to use hyperspace as a weapon. I wonder what would happen if you tried to exit hyperspace in the same position as another ship. Hyperspace feels a lot like teleportation and if you can teleport arbitrary stuff to arbitrary positions then it severely breaks combat and gives you a completely different equilibrium than the StarWars universe. Is there something stopping someone from hyperspacing a small ship with a nuclear warhead into a larger ship?

dylan604 8y ago
I think they addressed a similar concept in the tv show “Fringe”. Attempting to move an object from universe to another where something already existed did not end up well.