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Sure, a lot of people just waste money on stuff they outright don't need like the top 3 video games every quarter, a VR rig or two, vices like smoking (tobacco

Sure, a lot of people just waste money on stuff they outright don't need like the top 3 video games every quarter, a VR rig or two, vices like smoking (tobacco or marijuana), drinking, travel etc. But... when 20% have the bulk of the wealth the rest of us often have to unless we want to live 9 deep in a shoebox of an apartment, hot-bunking 3 beds. Being human beings we have emotion, we like to occasionally enjoy our miserable existences. Sure, one can survive with minimal electricity, sleeping on the floor, eating rice and beans, going nowhere but to work and the grocery but that isn't life. People WILL spend some money on recreation/entertainment/luxury because it has very real positive mental effects. People, especially on this forum, quickly forget that the federal minimum wave is $7.25 and that the median HOUSEHOLD income is around 59k. Public transportation isn't a viable option for many people and used cars often come with unexpected problems that can easily cost hundreds of dollars while newer vehicles cost considerably more. Not everyone has the time to spend cooking from scratch 1 meal a day let alone 3 and while people will be quick to shout 'meal prep!' that requires considerable freezer/refrigerator space. I can only meal prep about 2 days of food due to the ridiculously small freezer/refrigerator in my apartment that I am not allowed to replace for one I purchase. Sure, people could still save a ton by buying chicken, rice and beans and just using an instant pot to quickly cook their dinner and next day's lunch while they do something else but food is something people enjoy and life isn't about being miserable so people can get rather liberal with their food related spending. While many have health insurance, it is often not that great. I've fairly decent insurance and if I go to the optometrist/doctor/dentist for even routine things I'm out 20-40$ a visit assuming no tests/cleanings/prescriptions and if you get sick chances are your PCP isn't going to get you in in a timely fashion so you're out another extra 20-40$ for going to an urgent care provider. Hey you want internet at home? Be ready to cough up 60-120$ Live somewhere that doesn't have a fairly tolerable climate year-round? Expect expensive electric bills in the summer when it is 80-90F with 75%+ humidity. Expect expensive electric/gas bills in the winter when it's below freezing (and even here in Central Indiana we can see -1F down to -17F/-18C down to -27C). Want to go to a globo-gym? 30-40$ a month, at least. Want to do CrossFit or belong to a barbell club/powerlifting/olypmic lifting gym? 100-250$ a month. Want to see a movie? 10-20$ Want to rent one? 4-8$ Toss in consumables, on occasional book or video game, new computer/laptop/console/phone ever 2-5 years and you're talking hundreds to thousands of dollars, new clothes and shoes occasionally. Lucky enough to have a 401k? Even luckier and actually get a match? Many people are lucky if they can even afford the 2-5% required to get a full match. Want to try and save 10, 20, 30% of your gross income in your retirement account? You're likely going to have to sacrifice pretty hard elsewhere. Now, liquid savings... do you have any money left over for that? Yeah? Probably not a lot each pay period. Hey cool, you managed to save up 3 weeks take home! Awesome! You're winning. Shit, wait, oh no, no, oh come on man I just replaced my battery in my car a week ago and now one of my ball joints failed/someone smashed my window/someone slashed my tire(s)/my alternator went/I broke a bone/I have a new cavity/hours at work got cut/the kid has a non-cosmetic need for braces or corrective oral surgery/damn I got a $300 ticket for going 10 over the limit while other people regularly do 20 over/I got an interview at an office but I don't own any business casual clothes and everyone says I should wear a suit so there goes $150 to men's warehouse/etc. And don't get me started on college. Want to go to college? 20-250k in debt please depending on what level of degree(s). Got 1 kid, got 2 kids? If you want a (worthless) Associates from a community college (IUPUI) you are coughing up $275 a credit hour + $300 in admin fees a semester + whatever a parking pass costs + textbooks. ----- Since HN is throttling me for 'posting too fast' since my comment has been downvoted... shakes head* I'm going to reply to matt22's comment below this post since I've typed it out and am not going to sit here with the reply waiting 2-90+ minutes (in my experience) to post the comment*: > Exciting food other than what is needed to survive I read this as "people have no rights to enjoy their lives, gruel is perfectly acceptable for basic survival" > "The average advertised package for stand-alone internet service in America is around $50 per month during the initial promotional offer and about $60 per month" I gave a very generous range because utilities can be considerably more expensive in rural areas, rural areas compromise the majority of the United States by are. https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/how-much-should-i-be-paying-for-high-speed-internet-resource/ https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/how-much-should-... >Set the house to 68 in winter, 72 in summer. Dress accordingly. First you show bias by saying 'house' not 'home' or' residence. 68F in winter can still be quite costly if it's below freezing out, especially if it is windy and 72F in the summer can actually be pretty damn expensive if it's in the 90's. As far as 68 in the winter, yesterday my apartment management sent a text and email out to all residents reminding us to have our thermostats at at LEAST 72F to avoid pipes freezing with the winds and below-freezing temps that came in last night, I've seen other places recommend as low as 70F and I've had pipes on exterior walls freeze at a previous address with the thermostat set to 74F (which sucked because I'm miserable at 74F, too hot to sleep). >Exercise at home doing body weight exercises Again I read this as "people don't deserve recreation, they can do calisthenics for basic fitness" your next three statements read similar "if you aren't making big bucks, you get to sit at home in the dark twiddling your thumbs" >How often are these other tragedies occurring? More than once per year? Maybe you should considering moving away from a place where people are smashing windows or slashing tires/doing things to break bones? When you have lower income you often live in higher crime areas, drive older vehicles, can afford preventative maintenance less, have poorer nutrition which results in increased illnesses and even nutritional deficiencies that can lead to more broken bones, lower income folks also often have higher rates of blue-collar work which exponentially increases your risk of being injured on the job. Now I don't know your history, your current income, if your net worth is even negative but your replies come off as hostile and like someone that truly just doesn't know what it's like to not have a well-paying job. Go talk to people outside of your circles, go see how people actually live, go ask them what life has been like.

matty22 8y ago
So much of what you listed here are optional puchases: * Exciting food other than what is needed to survive * No way internet alone should be costing you $120/mo. If so, call in and threaten to close your account if they don't reduce the price. * Set the house to 68 in winter, 72 in summer. Dress accordingly. * Exercise at home doing body weight exercises. * If you don't have an emergency fund, you can't afford going to the movies or renting one. * If you don't have an emergency fund, you can't afford books or video games. * If you don't have an emergency fund, you can't afford a new computer/laptop/console/phone unless it is used to generate income. * Don't speed and you won't have to pay tickets. * How often are these other tragedies occurring? More than once per year? Maybe you should considering moving away from a place where people are smashing windows or slashing tires/doing things to break bones?
- crooked-v 8y ago
  > optional Having some form of leisure activity isn't optional for most people. > Maybe you should considering moving away from a place where people are smashing windows or slashing tires/doing things to break bones? How is somebody who can't afford to fix an often-assaulted car supposed to afford moving to somewhere nicer and thus more expensive?
matty22 8y ago
My reply to your replies: None of my statements say anything about what a person "deserves" or doesn't deserve. That's an emotion that bears no weight in the rational discussion of whether or not you can objectively afford a purchase. * Gruel is perfectly acceptable for basic survival. It WILL keep you alive. You mentioned chicken, rice, and beans in your OP. That's a far shot away from gruel. * 'House' is interchangeable with either of those other terms. Bringing it up was silly. I live in an apartment, I would still call it the house temperature. If your apartment complex has pipes that freeze, that's their issue to address, not yours. It isn't your responsibility to pay a higher heating bill to keep their pipes from freezing. * Exercise - Again, not a matter of whether someone "deserves" recreation or not. It's an objective, rational statement of whether or not a person without an emergency fund can afford a gym membership. I do have a small emergency fund and I still think that gym memberships are too expensive to consider. * Computers/laptops/phones/GAME CONSOLES(?!)/movies/books - Again, not a matter of whether someone "deserves" recreation or not. It's an objective, rational statement of whether or not a person without an emergency fund can afford these things. None of these statements are making any claims to what people deserve, because in truth, the world doesn't owe any of us anything. There is nothing in this world that any of us deserve just because we really want it. Stop thinking about what you deserve and think rationally about your money. What can you AFFORD? If you have debt and/or you have no savings, the correct answer to that question is, nothing outside of what it takes to survive and get back and forth to work. When you are out of debt and have an emergency fund, then sure, go crazy and buy some hot sauce to go along with your chicken, rice, and beans.

matty22 8y ago

So much of what you listed here are optional puchases: * Exciting food other than what is needed to survive * No way internet alone should be costing you $120/mo. If so, call in and threaten to close your account if they don't reduce the price. * Set the house to 68 in winter, 72 in summer. Dress accordingly. * Exercise at home doing body weight exercises. * If you don't have an emergency fund, you can't afford going to the movies or renting one. * If you don't have an emergency fund, you can't afford books or video games. * If you don't have an emergency fund, you can't afford a new computer/laptop/console/phone unless it is used to generate income. * Don't speed and you won't have to pay tickets. * How often are these other tragedies occurring? More than once per year? Maybe you should considering moving away from a place where people are smashing windows or slashing tires/doing things to break bones?

crooked-v 8y ago
> optional Having some form of leisure activity isn't optional for most people. > Maybe you should considering moving away from a place where people are smashing windows or slashing tires/doing things to break bones? How is somebody who can't afford to fix an often-assaulted car supposed to afford moving to somewhere nicer and thus more expensive?

matty22 8y ago

My reply to your replies: None of my statements say anything about what a person "deserves" or doesn't deserve. That's an emotion that bears no weight in the rational discussion of whether or not you can objectively afford a purchase. * Gruel is perfectly acceptable for basic survival. It WILL keep you alive. You mentioned chicken, rice, and beans in your OP. That's a far shot away from gruel. * 'House' is interchangeable with either of those other terms. Bringing it up was silly. I live in an apartment, I would still call it the house temperature. If your apartment complex has pipes that freeze, that's their issue to address, not yours. It isn't your responsibility to pay a higher heating bill to keep their pipes from freezing. * Exercise - Again, not a matter of whether someone "deserves" recreation or not. It's an objective, rational statement of whether or not a person without an emergency fund can afford a gym membership. I do have a small emergency fund and I still think that gym memberships are too expensive to consider. * Computers/laptops/phones/GAME CONSOLES(?!)/movies/books - Again, not a matter of whether someone "deserves" recreation or not. It's an objective, rational statement of whether or not a person without an emergency fund can afford these things. None of these statements are making any claims to what people deserve, because in truth, the world doesn't owe any of us anything. There is nothing in this world that any of us deserve just because we really want it. Stop thinking about what you deserve and think rationally about your money. What can you AFFORD? If you have debt and/or you have no savings, the correct answer to that question is, nothing outside of what it takes to survive and get back and forth to work. When you are out of debt and have an emergency fund, then sure, go crazy and buy some hot sauce to go along with your chicken, rice, and beans.