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The shifting preference patterns around cheese type are very tangible. In my own case, my kids have never had the kind of individually plastic-wrapped process

by danans 8y ago

The shifting preference patterns around cheese type are very tangible. In my own case, my kids have never had the kind of individually plastic-wrapped processed orange cheese slices that I grew up with. No Velveeta style either (unless it was on nachos at a fair). And we mostly buy domestic cheeses, of which there are many suppliers who make higher quality varieties. Tillamook, Cabot come to mind, and one of my favorites, Milton Creamery's Prairie Breeze Cheddar. Apart from these cheeses being objectively tastier than the cheese of my childhood, the power of social trends is strong, and people across the country have taken on to the "whole" foods trope in the past several years, no doubt urged along by the influence of celebrity chefs and new cuisines that have entered the US via immigration. Interest in higher quality food is one of things that, despite polarization in other spheres, has become fairly consistent between the coasts and the middle of the country.

neom 8y ago
Wow you're really passionate about your cheese huh? :) Question - could your parents have afforded real cheese and not the plastic processed stuff? I grew up in Scotland and you could only buy really real cheese, so when I'd go on summer holiday Cheese Whiz was such a treat and I envied anyone who got to eat it regularly.
- dataanalyst1 8y ago
  I grew up on kraft yellow cheese slices as well, my parents could've afforded better cheese however I think its more to the availability (much like the OP states) of better quality items. Grocery stores in America (well big cities at least) have changed massively in the past 30 years, and once you have some decent cheese, you wont buy single slices again.
- rch 8y ago
  My parents bought processed cheese because it was all my little brother would eat. I focused my complaining on dyes and sweeteners in order to get the the kind of food I preferred, but really I just like how simple foods taste. To this day, things that I buy or bring and leave on the shelf will still be there the next time I visit. It's probably a matter of different palates reinforced as culture.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  >Question - could your parents have afforded real cheese and not the plastic processed stuff? Not the person you asked but I'm nearly 34 and 'real cheese' wasn't really a thing when I was growing up. You had shredded cheeses, Kraft, Velveeta and maybe up to 4 cheese rolls in the deli counter at the grocery that could be sliced. Now the non Whole Foods/Trader Joe's grocers are exactly the same with the exception of having small refrigerated sections, away from all the other cheese, with more 'fancy' cheeses at considerably higher costs for relatively small amounts. With several of those 'fancy' cheeses costing 10-20% of my weekly groceries I just don't see myself trying them anytime soon. I've never seen any of my friends or co-workers eating, or even discussing, 'fancy' cheeses either but I bet you can go to 90% of their houses and find Kraft-style individually wrapped slices and/or a block of Velveeta.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - excalibur 8y ago
    I have the orange wrapped slices in my fridge solely because the children (who have terrible taste) beg for them. For myself I buy better cheese, but it's still a pretty far cry from fancy. We're talking cojack, swiss, provalone, and cheddar slices, shredded cheddar and mozzarella, and the occasional block of pepper jack. Usually from Aldi, but they could easily be found at any discount grocer. I feel like this is a pretty common state of affairs in middle America.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    I'd bet it's correlated to socioeconomic class. Younger, college educated, higher income, urban, and coastal are all probably markers of someone who is willing to spend more for better cheese. But there is quite a gap between Kraft/Velveeta and fancy cheese. I wouldn't say Tillamook or Cabot are fancy, just that they're decent cheese brands. I also wouldn't classify Kraft slices or Velveeta as cheese, and the FDA doesn't either.
    - irrational 8y ago
      Where I live Tillamook is just the normal run of the mill cheese. Definitely nothing special (though I do think Tillamook ice cream is the best brand my grocery store carries). You have to go to a different area of the store to get the upscale cheeses.
- danans 8y ago
  > Wow you're really passionate about your cheese huh? :) Living in the Bay Area makes foodies out of people ;) Don't get me started on my sustainable seafood, alt-milk or simulated meat preferences. > Question - could your parents have afforded real cheese and not the plastic processed stuff? Absolutely. They were solidly upper middle class. But they were also immigrants from India, a society that doesn't eat as much cheese beyond paneer (though a lot of dairy in other forms) so their first exposure to western style cheese was the dominant American cheese culture of the time, which was Kraft-style slices and powdered Parmesan in a can. They were also super-frugal, so perhaps there is some truth to what you are saying, but really, to this day, they have a very simple mental model of cheese, so they don't know (or care to know) what they are missing. Admittedly, cheese also formed a smaller portion of our diet - mostly on sandwiches.
  - aznpwnzor 8y ago
    > Living in the Bay Area makes foodies out of people ;) Not trying to antagonize here, but mainly wondering if you have a nuanced reason? The consensus is generally that the Bay Area doesn't have very good food, without even adjusting for the cost of living.
    - davidgay 8y ago
      > The consensus is generally that the Bay Area doesn't have very good food What? Exhibit A: http://www.berkeleybowl.com/ http://www.berkeleybowl.com/ Exhibit B: http://cheeseboardcollective.coop/ http://cheeseboardcollective.coop/ [exhibits C through Z on demand] I haven't seen better grocery or cheese stores anywhere else in the US, or in Switzerland (there's stores with some better cheeses, but nothing with the range and variety).
      - Fins 8y ago
        I've seen as good or better grocery or cheese shops in Chicago, but as much as I dislike SFBA for variuous reasons, there's no shortage of good (if usually vastly overpriced) restaurants.
      - 8y ago
MrMember 8y ago
I still use Kraft singles for burgers and grilled cheese sandwiches but for everything else I switched to higher quality cheese.
- allday 8y ago
  Yeah, after a long stretch of trying "proper" cheeses on burgers, I've gone back to using Kraft singles. Even Kenji Lopez-Alt recommends American cheese for burgers, so I don't feel so bad about it.
  - clan 8y ago
    I much prefer a mature cheddar. In particular an apple smoked cheddar. A close second would be a blue cheese such as St. Agur. Both with a lot of umami goodness on the burger. I will happily eat a burger with American cheese. It is good - but not cheese to me. It is more an oily softness than the smooth fatty softness from (dare I say real) cheese. Maybe this comes from growing up where a "cheese shop" actually is a thing :-) But cheese fries with american cheese are truly sinful and a very guilty pleasure. They're not common around here for which my heart is eternally thankful!
    - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
      I do both cheddar and blue/gorgonzola on the same burger and it works pretty well. We sometimes add chopped green olives and cream cheese and it makes for an absolutely sublime cheeseburger.
- Pfhreak 8y ago
  Consider trying other American Process Cheese brands -- e.g. Boar's Head -- that offer the same American Cheese singles, but are of a slightly higher quality. American cheese on burgers is fantastic, but there's definitely a gradient in the quality of the different American cheese products.
- nanomonkey 8y ago
  You can add sodium citrate to any cheese to make it stay together when melting. In fact you can melt several decent cheeses together, like gruyere and cheddar, add a gram of sodium citrate per ounce of cheese, melt, and pour it on a wax paper lined tray to make your own single slice cheese. For nacho sauce add water or beer to thin it down.
fokinsean 8y ago
On a side note, I don't even think Kraft singles is considered cheese by the FDA, which is why they have to label it as "Pasteurized Prepared Cheese Product."
- wiredfool 8y ago
  At one point, it was “Processed American Cheese Food”. The need to label it as food disturbed me. (Probably in the 90s, can’t remember which brand)
  - Pfhreak 8y ago
    It turns out there are lots of different labels and designations for 'Process Cheese'. Pasteurized Process Cheese - Cheese that has been made by melting together a bunch of cheeses (Colby, Cheddar, etc.) and emulsifiers. Singles from decent brands (e.g. Boar's Head) are tasty additions to burgers. Highly desirable meltiness qualities. Pasteurized Process Cheese Food - Like the above, but less 'cheese' and more 'approved other stuff'. Kraft singles, for example. Pasteurized Process Cheese Spread - Even less cheese, more moisture and other stuff. Designed for melting into queso, etc. Think Velveeta blocks. Pasteurized Process American Slices - Definitely not cheese. An oil based product. Meant to mimic the desirable melty qualities of Process Cheese.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> objectively tastier “tastier” is the archetypical example of something subjective. Heck “a matter of taste” is a common synonym for “subjective”.
- danans 8y ago
  Hah, good catch ;) I'll offer "just tastier" as a logically consistent, and transparently opinionated replacement.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Sure, but.. Would you object similarly to my saying that strawberries objectively taste better than poo? Not just 'better to me', but 'really better'. (Of course all food-taste-experiences are tastes experienced by someone, somewhere - are 'subjective' in that way.) How is there, for example, any such thing as a good/great chef, one being better than another, if it's all just 'subjective'? It's proverbial that there's no arguing about taste (in the broader sense), but it's also a commonplace that nothing else is worth arguing about. There are better and worse reasons for things.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Would you object similarly to my saying that strawberries objectively taste better than poo? Yes. > How is there, for example, any such thing as a good/great chef, one being better than another, if it's all just 'subjective'? “good” and “great” are invariably either relative to some specific purpose or subjective. > It's proverbial that there's no arguing about taste (in the broader sense), but it's also a commonplace that nothing else is worth arguing about. I disagree with the second half. It's sometimes worth arguing to the point of determining that the source of disagreement is a fundamental difference in taste (or, say, root moral principles, which aren't really that different from a logical point of view.) But once you've reached that point, there is no further use in arguing.
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      Ok :-) Thank you for the thoughtful reply.
cs02rm0 8y ago
I'm from the UK, but lived in Saudi for a bit and we'd often shop at a local American base where I was introduced to the individually wrapped plastic orange cheese. I bought a pack of 10 slices out of nostalgia this summer to go on burgers but where no brie, Stilton, etc survived Christmas there are still orange slices of plastic cheese in the fridge. I couldn't manage the whole pack and no one else would touch them!
- dubya 8y ago
  UK cheese is different from middle of America cheese. I remember being amazed by the cheddar selection at Sainsbury's. Cheap and delicious! Trader Joe's is the only place I've found a crunchy cheddar over here.
  - ionised 8y ago
    The UK does get those fake orange cheese slices too. I remember being given them as a kid, but have avoided them as an adult.
Alex3917 8y ago
> The shifting preference patterns around cheese type are very tangible. Yeah, but you still need to compare sandwich cheese to other sandwich cheese. It's not really fair to compare kraft singles with Cypress Grove, a more reasonable comparison would be something like Boar's Head.
monksy 8y ago
The american processed cheese has it's place. It's on hamburgers. There aren't a lot of cheese that work well for that. There are a lot of domestic cheeses that are good. You can find nearly every type of cheese being made by at least one cheese maker in Wisconsin. (Distribution is a completely different story)
- rustybelt 8y ago
  Agree completely. The flavor of American cheese blends perfectly with pickles, onion, ketchup, and mustard. You can't get that classic cheeseburger flavor without it.
- delinka 8y ago
  Cheddar's better. YMMV.
  - monksy 8y ago
    It can work, but you really have to put the heat on just the cheese to get the melty part. You risk overcooking the burger though.
    - delinka 8y ago
      It's all in the timing. And some forethought. The cheese should not be cold when the meat starts to cook. If you can judge the cook of the burger at all, you can judge when to add the cheese: before it's reached the final cook, but after your last flip.
- ItsDeathball 8y ago
  I find cheddar and pepper jack work as well or better on a homemade burger, but Kraft "cheese" slices are still irreplaceable on one thing, which is the grilled cheese sandwich. The ideal grilled cheese is made with American cheese, mass-produced white bread, and lots of butter. You can use better ingredients to try to make it fancier, but hit diminishing returns pretty much immediately.

by danans 8y ago

neom 8y ago

Wow you're really passionate about your cheese huh? :) Question - could your parents have afforded real cheese and not the plastic processed stuff? I grew up in Scotland and you could only buy really real cheese, so when I'd go on summer holiday Cheese Whiz was such a treat and I envied anyone who got to eat it regularly.

dataanalyst1 8y ago
I grew up on kraft yellow cheese slices as well, my parents could've afforded better cheese however I think its more to the availability (much like the OP states) of better quality items. Grocery stores in America (well big cities at least) have changed massively in the past 30 years, and once you have some decent cheese, you wont buy single slices again.
rch 8y ago
My parents bought processed cheese because it was all my little brother would eat. I focused my complaining on dyes and sweeteners in order to get the the kind of food I preferred, but really I just like how simple foods taste. To this day, things that I buy or bring and leave on the shelf will still be there the next time I visit. It's probably a matter of different palates reinforced as culture.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>Question - could your parents have afforded real cheese and not the plastic processed stuff? Not the person you asked but I'm nearly 34 and 'real cheese' wasn't really a thing when I was growing up. You had shredded cheeses, Kraft, Velveeta and maybe up to 4 cheese rolls in the deli counter at the grocery that could be sliced. Now the non Whole Foods/Trader Joe's grocers are exactly the same with the exception of having small refrigerated sections, away from all the other cheese, with more 'fancy' cheeses at considerably higher costs for relatively small amounts. With several of those 'fancy' cheeses costing 10-20% of my weekly groceries I just don't see myself trying them anytime soon. I've never seen any of my friends or co-workers eating, or even discussing, 'fancy' cheeses either but I bet you can go to 90% of their houses and find Kraft-style individually wrapped slices and/or a block of Velveeta.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- excalibur 8y ago
  I have the orange wrapped slices in my fridge solely because the children (who have terrible taste) beg for them. For myself I buy better cheese, but it's still a pretty far cry from fancy. We're talking cojack, swiss, provalone, and cheddar slices, shredded cheddar and mozzarella, and the occasional block of pepper jack. Usually from Aldi, but they could easily be found at any discount grocer. I feel like this is a pretty common state of affairs in middle America.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  I'd bet it's correlated to socioeconomic class. Younger, college educated, higher income, urban, and coastal are all probably markers of someone who is willing to spend more for better cheese. But there is quite a gap between Kraft/Velveeta and fancy cheese. I wouldn't say Tillamook or Cabot are fancy, just that they're decent cheese brands. I also wouldn't classify Kraft slices or Velveeta as cheese, and the FDA doesn't either.
  - irrational 8y ago
    Where I live Tillamook is just the normal run of the mill cheese. Definitely nothing special (though I do think Tillamook ice cream is the best brand my grocery store carries). You have to go to a different area of the store to get the upscale cheeses.
danans 8y ago
> Wow you're really passionate about your cheese huh? :) Living in the Bay Area makes foodies out of people ;) Don't get me started on my sustainable seafood, alt-milk or simulated meat preferences. > Question - could your parents have afforded real cheese and not the plastic processed stuff? Absolutely. They were solidly upper middle class. But they were also immigrants from India, a society that doesn't eat as much cheese beyond paneer (though a lot of dairy in other forms) so their first exposure to western style cheese was the dominant American cheese culture of the time, which was Kraft-style slices and powdered Parmesan in a can. They were also super-frugal, so perhaps there is some truth to what you are saying, but really, to this day, they have a very simple mental model of cheese, so they don't know (or care to know) what they are missing. Admittedly, cheese also formed a smaller portion of our diet - mostly on sandwiches.
- aznpwnzor 8y ago
  > Living in the Bay Area makes foodies out of people ;) Not trying to antagonize here, but mainly wondering if you have a nuanced reason? The consensus is generally that the Bay Area doesn't have very good food, without even adjusting for the cost of living.
  - davidgay 8y ago
    > The consensus is generally that the Bay Area doesn't have very good food What? Exhibit A: http://www.berkeleybowl.com/ http://www.berkeleybowl.com/ Exhibit B: http://cheeseboardcollective.coop/ http://cheeseboardcollective.coop/ [exhibits C through Z on demand] I haven't seen better grocery or cheese stores anywhere else in the US, or in Switzerland (there's stores with some better cheeses, but nothing with the range and variety).
    - Fins 8y ago
      I've seen as good or better grocery or cheese shops in Chicago, but as much as I dislike SFBA for variuous reasons, there's no shortage of good (if usually vastly overpriced) restaurants.
    - 8y ago

MrMember 8y ago

I still use Kraft singles for burgers and grilled cheese sandwiches but for everything else I switched to higher quality cheese.

allday 8y ago
Yeah, after a long stretch of trying "proper" cheeses on burgers, I've gone back to using Kraft singles. Even Kenji Lopez-Alt recommends American cheese for burgers, so I don't feel so bad about it.
- clan 8y ago
  I much prefer a mature cheddar. In particular an apple smoked cheddar. A close second would be a blue cheese such as St. Agur. Both with a lot of umami goodness on the burger. I will happily eat a burger with American cheese. It is good - but not cheese to me. It is more an oily softness than the smooth fatty softness from (dare I say real) cheese. Maybe this comes from growing up where a "cheese shop" actually is a thing :-) But cheese fries with american cheese are truly sinful and a very guilty pleasure. They're not common around here for which my heart is eternally thankful!
  - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
    I do both cheddar and blue/gorgonzola on the same burger and it works pretty well. We sometimes add chopped green olives and cream cheese and it makes for an absolutely sublime cheeseburger.
Pfhreak 8y ago
Consider trying other American Process Cheese brands -- e.g. Boar's Head -- that offer the same American Cheese singles, but are of a slightly higher quality. American cheese on burgers is fantastic, but there's definitely a gradient in the quality of the different American cheese products.
nanomonkey 8y ago
You can add sodium citrate to any cheese to make it stay together when melting. In fact you can melt several decent cheeses together, like gruyere and cheddar, add a gram of sodium citrate per ounce of cheese, melt, and pour it on a wax paper lined tray to make your own single slice cheese. For nacho sauce add water or beer to thin it down.

fokinsean 8y ago

On a side note, I don't even think Kraft singles is considered cheese by the FDA, which is why they have to label it as "Pasteurized Prepared Cheese Product."

wiredfool 8y ago
At one point, it was “Processed American Cheese Food”. The need to label it as food disturbed me. (Probably in the 90s, can’t remember which brand)
- Pfhreak 8y ago
  It turns out there are lots of different labels and designations for 'Process Cheese'. Pasteurized Process Cheese - Cheese that has been made by melting together a bunch of cheeses (Colby, Cheddar, etc.) and emulsifiers. Singles from decent brands (e.g. Boar's Head) are tasty additions to burgers. Highly desirable meltiness qualities. Pasteurized Process Cheese Food - Like the above, but less 'cheese' and more 'approved other stuff'. Kraft singles, for example. Pasteurized Process Cheese Spread - Even less cheese, more moisture and other stuff. Designed for melting into queso, etc. Think Velveeta blocks. Pasteurized Process American Slices - Definitely not cheese. An oil based product. Meant to mimic the desirable melty qualities of Process Cheese.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> objectively tastier “tastier” is the archetypical example of something subjective. Heck “a matter of taste” is a common synonym for “subjective”.

danans 8y ago
Hah, good catch ;) I'll offer "just tastier" as a logically consistent, and transparently opinionated replacement.
yesenadam 8y ago
Sure, but.. Would you object similarly to my saying that strawberries objectively taste better than poo? Not just 'better to me', but 'really better'. (Of course all food-taste-experiences are tastes experienced by someone, somewhere - are 'subjective' in that way.) How is there, for example, any such thing as a good/great chef, one being better than another, if it's all just 'subjective'? It's proverbial that there's no arguing about taste (in the broader sense), but it's also a commonplace that nothing else is worth arguing about. There are better and worse reasons for things.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Would you object similarly to my saying that strawberries objectively taste better than poo? Yes. > How is there, for example, any such thing as a good/great chef, one being better than another, if it's all just 'subjective'? “good” and “great” are invariably either relative to some specific purpose or subjective. > It's proverbial that there's no arguing about taste (in the broader sense), but it's also a commonplace that nothing else is worth arguing about. I disagree with the second half. It's sometimes worth arguing to the point of determining that the source of disagreement is a fundamental difference in taste (or, say, root moral principles, which aren't really that different from a logical point of view.) But once you've reached that point, there is no further use in arguing.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Ok :-) Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

cs02rm0 8y ago

I'm from the UK, but lived in Saudi for a bit and we'd often shop at a local American base where I was introduced to the individually wrapped plastic orange cheese. I bought a pack of 10 slices out of nostalgia this summer to go on burgers but where no brie, Stilton, etc survived Christmas there are still orange slices of plastic cheese in the fridge. I couldn't manage the whole pack and no one else would touch them!

dubya 8y ago
UK cheese is different from middle of America cheese. I remember being amazed by the cheddar selection at Sainsbury's. Cheap and delicious! Trader Joe's is the only place I've found a crunchy cheddar over here.
- ionised 8y ago
  The UK does get those fake orange cheese slices too. I remember being given them as a kid, but have avoided them as an adult.

Alex3917 8y ago

> The shifting preference patterns around cheese type are very tangible. Yeah, but you still need to compare sandwich cheese to other sandwich cheese. It's not really fair to compare kraft singles with Cypress Grove, a more reasonable comparison would be something like Boar's Head.

monksy 8y ago

The american processed cheese has it's place. It's on hamburgers. There aren't a lot of cheese that work well for that. There are a lot of domestic cheeses that are good. You can find nearly every type of cheese being made by at least one cheese maker in Wisconsin. (Distribution is a completely different story)

rustybelt 8y ago
Agree completely. The flavor of American cheese blends perfectly with pickles, onion, ketchup, and mustard. You can't get that classic cheeseburger flavor without it.
delinka 8y ago
Cheddar's better. YMMV.
- monksy 8y ago
  It can work, but you really have to put the heat on just the cheese to get the melty part. You risk overcooking the burger though.
  - delinka 8y ago
    It's all in the timing. And some forethought. The cheese should not be cold when the meat starts to cook. If you can judge the cook of the burger at all, you can judge when to add the cheese: before it's reached the final cook, but after your last flip.
ItsDeathball 8y ago
I find cheddar and pepper jack work as well or better on a homemade burger, but Kraft "cheese" slices are still irreplaceable on one thing, which is the grilled cheese sandwich. The ideal grilled cheese is made with American cheese, mass-produced white bread, and lots of butter. You can use better ingredients to try to make it fancier, but hit diminishing returns pretty much immediately.