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The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be taken at face value. It is inspirational for all the reasons he thinks it is. I mean, sure, it would be way better if Hong Kong weren't the colonial hell-hole it was. Chan rose above that and made a noticeable dent in the world. If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. As the Brits like to say, Chan and his story are exactly what it says on the tin. To say it's not demeans Chan and his life and his choices.

maldusiecle 8y ago
Man, believe whatever you like, but it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of people who were in Chan's miserable situation--indentured servitude, endless hours, extreme poverty--and worked hard and weren't able to become, you know, Jackie Chan. It sort of stands to reason that it has to be that way, too, for the whole system to work. Chan is able to be the celebrity that he is, specifically because there's only one of him; if there were dozens or hundreds of people like him, he wouldn't have the same kind of fame. Celebrity depends on singularity. It's absolute nonsense to say that "If he could do it...anyone can"; it's demeaning and cruel to the many people who were, like him, stuck in a terrible situation, but didn't have his good luck in getting out.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  It's not demeaning and cruel to his fellow countrymen. They are what sustain him. Chan is somewhat popular in the West, but he's a veritable god in the East, like Manny Pacquiao is to Filipinos. You are the one demeaning the people there. Chan is the one inspiring them. It's silly to think that everybody in Hong Kong is going to compare themselves to Jackie Chan and lament that they won't be able to do what he does. He's inspirational because he shows that you don't have to define yourself by your station in life and can change it. Chan is just the most visible symbol of it, but you can see similar stories all across the country. Your daughter getting inspired by princesses isn't cruel because she'll never be able to be a princess. She can become more like a particular princess she likes, adopting personality traits and learning to think like her.
  - dbingham 8y ago
    I think what the previous commenter was reacting to in your post was not your defense of Chan an his memoir as inspirational, per se, but rather the specific phrase "If he can do it anyone can" as ignoring the fact that Chan -- and celebrities like him -- are extreme outliers, and extremely lucky for their success. Yes, Chan worked his ass off. But to have the success he did, he also had to have an insane amount of luck. Using phrases like that excuses a system that keeps people oppressed by pointing to the outliers who manage to escape them. It's the old "lift yourself up by your bootstraps" argument. We should recognize and change the system, not point people to the outliers and say "See, you can do it too!" Chan's memoir can be inspirational, but we can also read into it - as the article does - and recognize the oppressive system and his luck in escaping it.
    - vinceguidry 8y ago
      This is why I added the daughters and princesses aside. The people of Hong Kong are not going to use Chan's example to try to be Jackie Chan. That's not the point. They're going to look carefully at their hero and decide that certain traits of his, like extreme courage and willingness to be brave, and choose to adopt them, just like a child does with their heroes. If you or I went over to Hong Kong, and told them to work hard and they'll succeed, then get in my private jet and fly back to the US, they'd just roll their eyes. But Jackie Chan is one of them. He understands the culture and the challenges. All famous people do for their audiences.
      - AchieveLife 8y ago
        Hey Vince I think we agree with you regarding the inspiration that Chan brings to his people. There is more than inspiration, sweat, tears, and blood that plays the part of viral success as Chan has achieved. Luck and opportunity are the missing pieces. The phrase "if Chan can do it then anyone can" is victim to survivorship bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) To conclude: Chan achieved awesome things, he's an inspiration, it's good for others to strive for success, success is not determined on hard work alone.
- j-c-hewitt 8y ago
  This is absurd to say. China is the biggest Horatio Alger story of the 20th century. During my parents' lifespan alone, millions of people in China died of starvation and it is now one of the world's leading industrial powers. China was extremely poor and now it is extremely rich as a mass phenomenon. It is not like a Gulf power in which a tiny elite of owners presiding over an army of imported indentures. Like any society in history there is inequality, but you have to be an insane ideologue to deny the reality of mass advancement in standard of living in China during the 20th and 21st century so far.
- failrate 8y ago
  Samo Hung was a fellow student of Jackie's. Other students at that Academy had careers in the fulm industry. It wasn't just luck: the ones who succeeded also worked harder and smarter.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    Or as my father quipped, "It's surprising how much luckier people who prepare are."
stcredzero 8y ago
I mean, sure, it would be way better if Hong Kong weren't the colonial hell-hole it was. In what sense is Hong Kong a colonial hell-hole? (Take this not as a challenge, but as a question from someone who is unfamiliar with the idea.) Is there an underclass trapped there? Do the people in it feel trapped?
- scrumbledober 8y ago
  i think the language was ambiguous but he was referring to hte past of Hong Kong, not currently.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  It was described in the article. A lot of economic activity there is only a few steps removed from human trafficking. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    I just read the article, and I didn't see any mention of human trafficking. The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons. I think that summarizes the constant emotional undertones in this article. This article strikes me as a deliberate re-spinning of a story meant to be triumphal, making it the sneakiest hit piece, ever, disguised as a think piece. I would think better of it, were it not for its reliance on such common knowledge preconceptions about "what the Chinese are like." (Also the French and the British. But that is just what upper-crusty people are like. Human beings are highly hierarchical, and this expresses itself in even the most hardline Marxist states. Even some of the west coast philosopher kings and queens who hang out in places like Big Sur can look down their noses at people with almost no information to prompt it.)
    - vinceguidry 8y ago
      > The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get out of it. I'm not entirely certain where to draw the line.
larrydag 8y ago
I've often heard of BUDS Navy Seal training that its not IF you break a bone or get hurt its WHEN. I agree it takes a certain personality.
- madeuptempacct 8y ago
  Anyone who thinks you can go through BUDS/RASP/RIP/Q-Course/whatever injured and "fight through it" is a delusional fanboy. The reality is that it has very little to do with willpower and everything to do with your physical condition before the course and your genetic potential. If you get hurt, you are out, and you are checking gates for 12 hours a day or go regular infantry. Yes, there are second chances, but that's another story.
  - fao_ 8y ago
    all of your stuff for at least the last month has been shadowbanned. idk why.
    - madeuptempacct 8y ago
      Thanks for the heads up. I have no idea why either, but I appreciate knowing.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      It seemed to start after sctb said "We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop." 37 days ago.
      - madeuptempacct 8y ago
        I think the mods and I just disagree with the line between "hate speech" and common sense, as exemplified here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18527203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18527203 Still, can't be mad, they did warn me.
cribbles 8y ago
> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." This is almost tautologically true. Who starts fighting because they want to avoid getting hit at all costs? The author wants to examine _why_ Chan drives himself, over and over, to the brink of life-threatening injuries, while we HN commenters - most of us anyway - do not. He fairly persuasively argues that it's a mix of extreme C-PTSD, childhood abandonment, economic destitution, and a near total lack of alternative opportunities. Can that still be inspiring? To whom? To do what? These are the questions the author wants to ask. We can quibble over the answers. But either way, I find this type of critical perspective more intellectually provocative than taking Chan's plain-faced recollection for granted.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  Could it just be because he likes it?
  - Vicktree 8y ago
    liking something is important but you have to ask why they liked it in the first place. The reason for their desire matters. Professional football player might "like" football even though it takes a heavy physical toll (brain damage, joint damage, etc.) but notice the people becoming professional football players are usually from disadvantaged neighborhoods who see the sport as one of the few ladders they can use to climb to a better future. Its not going to be the sons of university professors who become football players. The reason Jackie Chan took all of those risks and "liked it" is because of his economic status.
    - vinceguidry 8y ago
      > The reason Jackie Chan took all of those risks and "liked it" is because of his economic status. I think you have this exactly backward. He took the risks not knowing they would make him an international star. I submit that he only could have done that if he enjoyed not just the fruits, but the process. Several times he describes volunteering for things others wouldn't do. You wouldn't do that if you weren't at least indifferent, if not eager, to confront the danger.
PakG1 8y ago
"Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." Unrelated, but I suppose this is why there is so much controversy and disagreement as to whether Floyd Mayweather actually is the greatest boxer ever (which he himself has claimed multiple times he is), as he puts so much effort into not getting hit (and some say he runs away from opponents, only fights them before or after their prime, never during their prime). But he does have that 50-0 record.
karmelapple 8y ago
> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." I'd generalize it to: "Great craftspeople have to kind of like the part of their craft that is unpleasant to 99% of the population." Someone who excels at playing violin, writing computer software, public speaking, etc., generally does not find the "unpleasant" part to be "tiring", "boring", or "work". Instead, it's just part of the overall experience, which is a net positive. When I was younger, I had a classmate who's an excellent violin player. Her practice schedule sounded awful to me, with well over an hour spent even on weekdays. I played musical instruments, too, and I liked a little practice, but rarely more than 30 minutes in a day. I asked the violin player about this schedule, and the way she answered the question made it clear that practicing didn't seem unpleasant, or like "work," like it would to many other people. It was something she truly enjoyed. Similar things can be applied to software development and liking the idea of investigating obtuse error messages and things breaking without any clear root cause.
- aasasd 8y ago
  AKA “We hackers do for love what others wouldn't do for money.”
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  I'm reminded of fighter pilots: "I can't believe I'm being paid to fly!"
  - pmarreck 8y ago
    Can't think of something that must be more thrilling than piloting a fighter aircraft. Sadly I was too tall/big (I did a stint in the USAF, once...) Most fighter aircraft are designed for small to medium size fit men up to a maximum of 6'... I was 6'3" and slightly overweight
    - monk_e_boy 8y ago
      It does look fun. But there are other sports that push the excitement envelope. I kitesurf. You can pick up the F1 of kites for around a grand. It's like being tied to an F1 car. Or go surfing, tech and shapes haven't changed for a few decades. So boards are cheap. Paddle out when it's big. That's a lot of water sloshing around. Being trapped out back on a big day is truly terrifying. And the only way in is to surf one of those waves. Makes my bum-hole tingle just thinking about it.
magic_beans 8y ago
But it IS sad. Jackie Chan is one -- ONE -- success story in a pool of what must be thousands of boys who will never see success and will always be poor and uneducated. I was honestly shocked to learn how little Jackie Chan is educated -- and how little he wants to be -- despite his tremendous wealth.
oarabbus_ 8y ago
>I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." Floyd Mayweather disputes this.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  It's not always terribly exciting to watch, but Mayweather's pathological aversion to getting punched is certainly effective.
  - mac01021 8y ago
    Never thought I'd hear an aversion to being punched described as pathological.
    - dmoy 8y ago
      Most boxers will trade punches a lot more. Floyd just apparently figured out that total defense is better.
    - MisterOctober 8y ago
      Indeed -- taking into account the recent revelations about CTE and related issues, Mayweather's "I believe in taking as little punishment as is possible" approach seems to me well-considered.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        Who'd have thought that being repeatedly punched in the head would have negative long-term health implications?
makotech222 8y ago
> If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. If this were true, everyone would have. People don't just go through life wanting to be poor and miserable. The system we live in only allows very few people to avoid living in misery.
fredgrott 8y ago
reminds me of Lee's story from my time period...same HongKong hellhole but he got out at an early age
NeoBasilisk 8y ago
>If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. This is a terrible mindset to have.
- Cpoll 8y ago
  "If I can win the lottery, anyone can" indeed. Does that technically fall under survivorship bias? (Which isn't to say that Chan _just_ got lucky, just that it's a combination of luck, skill, upbringing, disposition, opportunity...)
  - grecy 8y ago
    You forgot the three most important things, which are 10,000 times more important than the ones you listed. Hard work, hard work and hard work.
    - sirmarksalot 8y ago
      Necessary but not sufficient.
      - kkarakk 8y ago
        what about jackie chan's life story screams luck and people handing him things coz he was handsome to you? literally all he did was hard work
        MagnumOpus 8y ago
        The part that screams luck is that for every hard working Jackie Chan there are ten -- or more likely a hundred -- people just as talented and working just as hard, who didn't become multimillionaire A-list celebrities. Which is why the parent poster said hard work is necessary but not sufficient.
- isoskeles 8y ago
  It's not as if the converse here is, "If a person doesn't succeed, then they did not deserve it." Is that the reason you have a problem with this mindset? I think of most alternatives as being fatalist / victim mentality, where you think you're an object that the universe does things to. What mindset do you propose people have when they want to achieve something exceptionally difficult?
dwd 8y ago
Chan mentions the great Sammo Hung who was also in the troupe and credits him with getting him out and started in films. The two of them hired many of their fellow students over the years. Sammo starred as the master in a film about the school https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painted_Faces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painted_Faces

maldusiecle 8y ago

Man, believe whatever you like, but it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of people who were in Chan's miserable situation--indentured servitude, endless hours, extreme poverty--and worked hard and weren't able to become, you know, Jackie Chan. It sort of stands to reason that it has to be that way, too, for the whole system to work. Chan is able to be the celebrity that he is, specifically because there's only one of him; if there were dozens or hundreds of people like him, he wouldn't have the same kind of fame. Celebrity depends on singularity. It's absolute nonsense to say that "If he could do it...anyone can"; it's demeaning and cruel to the many people who were, like him, stuck in a terrible situation, but didn't have his good luck in getting out.

vinceguidry 8y ago
It's not demeaning and cruel to his fellow countrymen. They are what sustain him. Chan is somewhat popular in the West, but he's a veritable god in the East, like Manny Pacquiao is to Filipinos. You are the one demeaning the people there. Chan is the one inspiring them. It's silly to think that everybody in Hong Kong is going to compare themselves to Jackie Chan and lament that they won't be able to do what he does. He's inspirational because he shows that you don't have to define yourself by your station in life and can change it. Chan is just the most visible symbol of it, but you can see similar stories all across the country. Your daughter getting inspired by princesses isn't cruel because she'll never be able to be a princess. She can become more like a particular princess she likes, adopting personality traits and learning to think like her.
- dbingham 8y ago
  I think what the previous commenter was reacting to in your post was not your defense of Chan an his memoir as inspirational, per se, but rather the specific phrase "If he can do it anyone can" as ignoring the fact that Chan -- and celebrities like him -- are extreme outliers, and extremely lucky for their success. Yes, Chan worked his ass off. But to have the success he did, he also had to have an insane amount of luck. Using phrases like that excuses a system that keeps people oppressed by pointing to the outliers who manage to escape them. It's the old "lift yourself up by your bootstraps" argument. We should recognize and change the system, not point people to the outliers and say "See, you can do it too!" Chan's memoir can be inspirational, but we can also read into it - as the article does - and recognize the oppressive system and his luck in escaping it.
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    This is why I added the daughters and princesses aside. The people of Hong Kong are not going to use Chan's example to try to be Jackie Chan. That's not the point. They're going to look carefully at their hero and decide that certain traits of his, like extreme courage and willingness to be brave, and choose to adopt them, just like a child does with their heroes. If you or I went over to Hong Kong, and told them to work hard and they'll succeed, then get in my private jet and fly back to the US, they'd just roll their eyes. But Jackie Chan is one of them. He understands the culture and the challenges. All famous people do for their audiences.
    - AchieveLife 8y ago
      Hey Vince I think we agree with you regarding the inspiration that Chan brings to his people. There is more than inspiration, sweat, tears, and blood that plays the part of viral success as Chan has achieved. Luck and opportunity are the missing pieces. The phrase "if Chan can do it then anyone can" is victim to survivorship bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) To conclude: Chan achieved awesome things, he's an inspiration, it's good for others to strive for success, success is not determined on hard work alone.
j-c-hewitt 8y ago
This is absurd to say. China is the biggest Horatio Alger story of the 20th century. During my parents' lifespan alone, millions of people in China died of starvation and it is now one of the world's leading industrial powers. China was extremely poor and now it is extremely rich as a mass phenomenon. It is not like a Gulf power in which a tiny elite of owners presiding over an army of imported indentures. Like any society in history there is inequality, but you have to be an insane ideologue to deny the reality of mass advancement in standard of living in China during the 20th and 21st century so far.
failrate 8y ago
Samo Hung was a fellow student of Jackie's. Other students at that Academy had careers in the fulm industry. It wasn't just luck: the ones who succeeded also worked harder and smarter.
- ethbro 8y ago
  Or as my father quipped, "It's surprising how much luckier people who prepare are."

stcredzero 8y ago

I mean, sure, it would be way better if Hong Kong weren't the colonial hell-hole it was. In what sense is Hong Kong a colonial hell-hole? (Take this not as a challenge, but as a question from someone who is unfamiliar with the idea.) Is there an underclass trapped there? Do the people in it feel trapped?

scrumbledober 8y ago
i think the language was ambiguous but he was referring to hte past of Hong Kong, not currently.
vinceguidry 8y ago
It was described in the article. A lot of economic activity there is only a few steps removed from human trafficking. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  I just read the article, and I didn't see any mention of human trafficking. The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons. I think that summarizes the constant emotional undertones in this article. This article strikes me as a deliberate re-spinning of a story meant to be triumphal, making it the sneakiest hit piece, ever, disguised as a think piece. I would think better of it, were it not for its reliance on such common knowledge preconceptions about "what the Chinese are like." (Also the French and the British. But that is just what upper-crusty people are like. Human beings are highly hierarchical, and this expresses itself in even the most hardline Marxist states. Even some of the west coast philosopher kings and queens who hang out in places like Big Sur can look down their noses at people with almost no information to prompt it.)
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    > The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get out of it. I'm not entirely certain where to draw the line.

larrydag 8y ago

I've often heard of BUDS Navy Seal training that its not IF you break a bone or get hurt its WHEN. I agree it takes a certain personality.

madeuptempacct 8y ago
Anyone who thinks you can go through BUDS/RASP/RIP/Q-Course/whatever injured and "fight through it" is a delusional fanboy. The reality is that it has very little to do with willpower and everything to do with your physical condition before the course and your genetic potential. If you get hurt, you are out, and you are checking gates for 12 hours a day or go regular infantry. Yes, there are second chances, but that's another story.
- fao_ 8y ago
  all of your stuff for at least the last month has been shadowbanned. idk why.
  - madeuptempacct 8y ago
    Thanks for the heads up. I have no idea why either, but I appreciate knowing.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    It seemed to start after sctb said "We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop." 37 days ago.
    - madeuptempacct 8y ago
      I think the mods and I just disagree with the line between "hate speech" and common sense, as exemplified here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18527203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18527203 Still, can't be mad, they did warn me.

cribbles 8y ago

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." This is almost tautologically true. Who starts fighting because they want to avoid getting hit at all costs? The author wants to examine _why_ Chan drives himself, over and over, to the brink of life-threatening injuries, while we HN commenters - most of us anyway - do not. He fairly persuasively argues that it's a mix of extreme C-PTSD, childhood abandonment, economic destitution, and a near total lack of alternative opportunities. Can that still be inspiring? To whom? To do what? These are the questions the author wants to ask. We can quibble over the answers. But either way, I find this type of critical perspective more intellectually provocative than taking Chan's plain-faced recollection for granted.

vinceguidry 8y ago
Could it just be because he likes it?
- Vicktree 8y ago
  liking something is important but you have to ask why they liked it in the first place. The reason for their desire matters. Professional football player might "like" football even though it takes a heavy physical toll (brain damage, joint damage, etc.) but notice the people becoming professional football players are usually from disadvantaged neighborhoods who see the sport as one of the few ladders they can use to climb to a better future. Its not going to be the sons of university professors who become football players. The reason Jackie Chan took all of those risks and "liked it" is because of his economic status.
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    > The reason Jackie Chan took all of those risks and "liked it" is because of his economic status. I think you have this exactly backward. He took the risks not knowing they would make him an international star. I submit that he only could have done that if he enjoyed not just the fruits, but the process. Several times he describes volunteering for things others wouldn't do. You wouldn't do that if you weren't at least indifferent, if not eager, to confront the danger.

PakG1 8y ago

"Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." Unrelated, but I suppose this is why there is so much controversy and disagreement as to whether Floyd Mayweather actually is the greatest boxer ever (which he himself has claimed multiple times he is), as he puts so much effort into not getting hit (and some say he runs away from opponents, only fights them before or after their prime, never during their prime). But he does have that 50-0 record.

karmelapple 8y ago

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." I'd generalize it to: "Great craftspeople have to kind of like the part of their craft that is unpleasant to 99% of the population." Someone who excels at playing violin, writing computer software, public speaking, etc., generally does not find the "unpleasant" part to be "tiring", "boring", or "work". Instead, it's just part of the overall experience, which is a net positive. When I was younger, I had a classmate who's an excellent violin player. Her practice schedule sounded awful to me, with well over an hour spent even on weekdays. I played musical instruments, too, and I liked a little practice, but rarely more than 30 minutes in a day. I asked the violin player about this schedule, and the way she answered the question made it clear that practicing didn't seem unpleasant, or like "work," like it would to many other people. It was something she truly enjoyed. Similar things can be applied to software development and liking the idea of investigating obtuse error messages and things breaking without any clear root cause.

aasasd 8y ago
AKA “We hackers do for love what others wouldn't do for money.”
skookumchuck 8y ago
I'm reminded of fighter pilots: "I can't believe I'm being paid to fly!"
- pmarreck 8y ago
  Can't think of something that must be more thrilling than piloting a fighter aircraft. Sadly I was too tall/big (I did a stint in the USAF, once...) Most fighter aircraft are designed for small to medium size fit men up to a maximum of 6'... I was 6'3" and slightly overweight
  - monk_e_boy 8y ago
    It does look fun. But there are other sports that push the excitement envelope. I kitesurf. You can pick up the F1 of kites for around a grand. It's like being tied to an F1 car. Or go surfing, tech and shapes haven't changed for a few decades. So boards are cheap. Paddle out when it's big. That's a lot of water sloshing around. Being trapped out back on a big day is truly terrifying. And the only way in is to surf one of those waves. Makes my bum-hole tingle just thinking about it.

magic_beans 8y ago

But it IS sad. Jackie Chan is one -- ONE -- success story in a pool of what must be thousands of boys who will never see success and will always be poor and uneducated. I was honestly shocked to learn how little Jackie Chan is educated -- and how little he wants to be -- despite his tremendous wealth.

oarabbus_ 8y ago

>I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." Floyd Mayweather disputes this.

jdietrich 8y ago
It's not always terribly exciting to watch, but Mayweather's pathological aversion to getting punched is certainly effective.
- mac01021 8y ago
  Never thought I'd hear an aversion to being punched described as pathological.
  - dmoy 8y ago
    Most boxers will trade punches a lot more. Floyd just apparently figured out that total defense is better.
  - MisterOctober 8y ago
    Indeed -- taking into account the recent revelations about CTE and related issues, Mayweather's "I believe in taking as little punishment as is possible" approach seems to me well-considered.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
      Who'd have thought that being repeatedly punched in the head would have negative long-term health implications?

makotech222 8y ago

> If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. If this were true, everyone would have. People don't just go through life wanting to be poor and miserable. The system we live in only allows very few people to avoid living in misery.

fredgrott 8y ago

reminds me of Lee's story from my time period...same HongKong hellhole but he got out at an early age

NeoBasilisk 8y ago

>If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. This is a terrible mindset to have.

Cpoll 8y ago
"If I can win the lottery, anyone can" indeed. Does that technically fall under survivorship bias? (Which isn't to say that Chan _just_ got lucky, just that it's a combination of luck, skill, upbringing, disposition, opportunity...)
- grecy 8y ago
  You forgot the three most important things, which are 10,000 times more important than the ones you listed. Hard work, hard work and hard work.
  - sirmarksalot 8y ago
    Necessary but not sufficient.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      what about jackie chan's life story screams luck and people handing him things coz he was handsome to you? literally all he did was hard work
      - MagnumOpus 8y ago
        The part that screams luck is that for every hard working Jackie Chan there are ten -- or more likely a hundred -- people just as talented and working just as hard, who didn't become multimillionaire A-list celebrities. Which is why the parent poster said hard work is necessary but not sufficient.
isoskeles 8y ago
It's not as if the converse here is, "If a person doesn't succeed, then they did not deserve it." Is that the reason you have a problem with this mindset? I think of most alternatives as being fatalist / victim mentality, where you think you're an object that the universe does things to. What mindset do you propose people have when they want to achieve something exceptionally difficult?

dwd 8y ago

Chan mentions the great Sammo Hung who was also in the troupe and credits him with getting him out and started in films. The two of them hired many of their fellow students over the years. Sammo starred as the master in a film about the school https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painted_Faces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painted_Faces