4 ms·

Is it the People's fault, or is it Twitter's?

PurpleRamen 8y ago
Both? People learn from experience and feedback and adapt to their environment. But on digital platforms like twitter the feedback is reduced and you are constanly confrontated with people from very different groups, cultures, environments; which are also constanly change.. It's a permanent grinder for everyone.
protomyth 8y ago
People. Twitter doesn't read your mind and post without permission. Its on the person who wrote it. Now, of course, language can be a barrier and regional conventions, but I doubt those are the issue. This reminds me a bit on the discussion of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3633985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3633985 where some folks were trying to justify that it was ok to throw their used paper towel on the floor instead of the trash. A person is responsible for the pain they intentionally bring others.
WarDores 8y ago
People. You don't get a free pass on being an arsehole just because the platform makes it easy to do.
- Touche 8y ago
  Ok, people are terrible. Now what? The platform that brings out the worst in us is something that can be changed.
  - glitcher 8y ago
    I get frustrated at times, but still never go on any twitter/social rants. I hate to break it to you, but the platform is merely allowing every individual to behave as they please. There are plenty of folks who never have their worst brought out.
    - lubesGordi 8y ago
      Its the classic freedom / responsibility tradeoff.
  - otakucode 8y ago
    Some changes simply have to be accepted by the participants en masse and implemented by them manually, and any engineering to try to force such a change generally will fail catastrophically. It's not by accident or mistake that there are no happy, prosperous oppressive police states. Society must determine its own culture, and if that's 'too messy' for those building technology, the consequences will be dire and perhaps they should have not chosen humans as their target audience.
  - Bartweiss 8y ago
    Does it bring out the worst in us, or just make it a bit more public facing? With random anonymous users, it's obviously hard to tell. And somebody using a dozen different accounts to evade blocks is at minimum using Twitter as a force multiplier for their terribleness. But as far as actually bringing out the worst in us? The people I've known in person who say awful stuff on Twitter are awful in meatspace too. The minor celebrities who spew hate and harass strangers on Twitter are generally also known for mistreated employees, failed partnerships, and speedy breakups. This is something that's on my mind a lot as we talk about tech ethics. Whether it's Twitter driving harassment or Facebook driving depression, or even Cambridge Analytica manipulating specific voter segments, I think we underestimate the likelihood of "this always happened, but now it's online". Before Twitter, people were harassed in person or by phone. Before Facebook, depressed people still picked low-intensity pasttimes and felt bad about comparisons to their friends. And before Cambridge Analytica, Viguerie was using near-identical tactics by mail.
- tel 8y ago
  Disagree. While we can suppose and discuss personal ethics, and while we can agree that certain behaviors are hurtful or abusive, we cannot expect that a single policy of that style will actually defend against abuse. At least not at scale. This is the difference between public health and medical practice. They make different decisions because while a good doctor can behave with great skill and ethical power they cannot stop you from getting sneezed on. Twitter (just as an example) as a platform is clearly a failure in some use cases. This shouldn’t be surprising—it’d be straight unsettling for one tool to be right for everyone in all situations and at all scales. As it is, people are today choosing to deal with the stress because it’s “where the people are”, but the economics of that won’t always play in Twitter’s favor. I think there is legitimate opportunity here, but the answer won’t look much like a Twitter (e.g., or, more generally, the platforms of today) at all.
  - WarDores 8y ago
    I think we agree more than disagree -- I believe the blame for abuse should go on the abuser. I think (you can correct me if I'm wrong) that you want to have the discussion "given there are abusers, what should a platform do about it?" Would an optimally designed platform handle abuse better than Twitter (or Reddit, or the like)? Absolutely. I also don't think that that absolves anyone of the responsibility to engage in civil discourse rather than uncivil.
- stronglikedan 8y ago
  > You don't get a free pass You do when you can remain anonymous while doing so, but fortunately or unfortunately, I wouldn't have it any other way.
  - WarDores 8y ago
    I see what you're getting at. I took the question as being "on whom does the responsibility lie," which I would place with the individual. Anonymity does certainly contribute, but I'd still say that an individual can choose to contribute positively or negatively regardless of the medium.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Both? People learn from experience and feedback and adapt to their environment. But on digital platforms like twitter the feedback is reduced and you are constanly confrontated with people from very different groups, cultures, environments; which are also constanly change.. It's a permanent grinder for everyone.

protomyth 8y ago

People. Twitter doesn't read your mind and post without permission. Its on the person who wrote it. Now, of course, language can be a barrier and regional conventions, but I doubt those are the issue. This reminds me a bit on the discussion of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3633985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3633985 where some folks were trying to justify that it was ok to throw their used paper towel on the floor instead of the trash. A person is responsible for the pain they intentionally bring others.

WarDores 8y ago

People. You don't get a free pass on being an arsehole just because the platform makes it easy to do.

Touche 8y ago
Ok, people are terrible. Now what? The platform that brings out the worst in us is something that can be changed.
- glitcher 8y ago
  I get frustrated at times, but still never go on any twitter/social rants. I hate to break it to you, but the platform is merely allowing every individual to behave as they please. There are plenty of folks who never have their worst brought out.
  - lubesGordi 8y ago
    Its the classic freedom / responsibility tradeoff.
- otakucode 8y ago
  Some changes simply have to be accepted by the participants en masse and implemented by them manually, and any engineering to try to force such a change generally will fail catastrophically. It's not by accident or mistake that there are no happy, prosperous oppressive police states. Society must determine its own culture, and if that's 'too messy' for those building technology, the consequences will be dire and perhaps they should have not chosen humans as their target audience.
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  Does it bring out the worst in us, or just make it a bit more public facing? With random anonymous users, it's obviously hard to tell. And somebody using a dozen different accounts to evade blocks is at minimum using Twitter as a force multiplier for their terribleness. But as far as actually bringing out the worst in us? The people I've known in person who say awful stuff on Twitter are awful in meatspace too. The minor celebrities who spew hate and harass strangers on Twitter are generally also known for mistreated employees, failed partnerships, and speedy breakups. This is something that's on my mind a lot as we talk about tech ethics. Whether it's Twitter driving harassment or Facebook driving depression, or even Cambridge Analytica manipulating specific voter segments, I think we underestimate the likelihood of "this always happened, but now it's online". Before Twitter, people were harassed in person or by phone. Before Facebook, depressed people still picked low-intensity pasttimes and felt bad about comparisons to their friends. And before Cambridge Analytica, Viguerie was using near-identical tactics by mail.
tel 8y ago
Disagree. While we can suppose and discuss personal ethics, and while we can agree that certain behaviors are hurtful or abusive, we cannot expect that a single policy of that style will actually defend against abuse. At least not at scale. This is the difference between public health and medical practice. They make different decisions because while a good doctor can behave with great skill and ethical power they cannot stop you from getting sneezed on. Twitter (just as an example) as a platform is clearly a failure in some use cases. This shouldn’t be surprising—it’d be straight unsettling for one tool to be right for everyone in all situations and at all scales. As it is, people are today choosing to deal with the stress because it’s “where the people are”, but the economics of that won’t always play in Twitter’s favor. I think there is legitimate opportunity here, but the answer won’t look much like a Twitter (e.g., or, more generally, the platforms of today) at all.
- WarDores 8y ago
  I think we agree more than disagree -- I believe the blame for abuse should go on the abuser. I think (you can correct me if I'm wrong) that you want to have the discussion "given there are abusers, what should a platform do about it?" Would an optimally designed platform handle abuse better than Twitter (or Reddit, or the like)? Absolutely. I also don't think that that absolves anyone of the responsibility to engage in civil discourse rather than uncivil.
stronglikedan 8y ago
> You don't get a free pass You do when you can remain anonymous while doing so, but fortunately or unfortunately, I wouldn't have it any other way.
- WarDores 8y ago
  I see what you're getting at. I took the question as being "on whom does the responsibility lie," which I would place with the individual. Anonymity does certainly contribute, but I'd still say that an individual can choose to contribute positively or negatively regardless of the medium.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]