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The only problem I have with caveats like this is that on all the hundreds of occasions when I've heard someone say, "Actually, that's not irony," the subseque
by mcantor 16y ago
The only problem I have with caveats like this is that on all the hundreds of occasions when I've heard someone say, "Actually, that's not irony," the subsequent explanation of what does qualify as irony has been different every single time.
This is additionally confounded by the fact that British people really do mean "sarcasm" when they say "irony." (At least, most of the British people I've spoken with do.)
- dejb 16y ago> This is additionally confounded by the fact that British people really do mean "sarcasm" when they say "irony." I've never experienced this in actual conversation with British and/or other non-US English speakers. But the internet definitions I'm finding seem to all include 'sarcastic but somewhat subtle' in the definition of ironic. For me the definitions of sarcasm and irony do not intersect. Sarcasm is intentional whereas irony is at best random or more often a signifier of implied 'fate'.
- chopsueyar 16y agoI concur. The distinction is important.
- oiuytgfyhujik 16y agoSuggested motto for the USA: "We don't understand sarcasm and we carry guns"
- kwantam 16y agoIrony certainly can be random or a signifier of implied fate in the case of literary/dramatic irony. Verbal irony, which is closely related to but not identical to sarcasm (though there is quite a lot of debate on exactly the relationship among psycholinguists) is most certainly intentional. "I don't wear my seat belt because if I'm uncomfortable I'll drive more dangerously." "Sounds like you've really thought that one through." Verbal irony, possibly sarcasm depending on whose definition you buy, but definitely intentional in any case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Verbal_irony http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Verbal_irony discusses this further and refers to specific research on this topic.