5 ms·

My note 9 got preinstalled with Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneDrive and LinkedIn. Is that what you call crapware? I mean, I don't use LinkedIn nor OneDrive, and

My note 9 got preinstalled with Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneDrive and LinkedIn. Is that what you call crapware? I mean, I don't use LinkedIn nor OneDrive, and I only occasionally use the others, but these are high-quality pieces of software, you can completely disable these apps natively as well, they're not removed, but they don't impact the system in any way aside from taking up a small chunk of your memory.

code_duck 8y ago
I would use none of those. How about having the option to install them or not, like normal software?
paulie_a 8y ago
If it isnt pure Android, and ships with apps you can't uninstall through normal means, it is crapware. They shouldn't be installed in the first place. And LinkedIn isn't crapware, it's shitware
- zeusk 8y ago
  Google+ and ancillary Google spyware must be installed by default for playstore compatibility test suite to pass. Is that pure android? Bloat? Crapware? Or just plain shit?
  - tssva 8y ago
    Apple also ships with a bunch of their apps that I would classify as crapware but unlike on Android I can't replace them as defaults with 3rf party apps of my choosing.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      These also happen to coincide with the apps that you can't delete from your device. Apple refuses to give third-party developers access to sensitive APIs, such as those relating to the Phone app or SMS, due to the potential for abuse.
  - HillaryBriss 8y ago
    I think this is a valid criticism of stock android phones -- even ones sold directly by Google. But it's a slightly different criticism than the main crapware criticism here because FB is really a 3rd party. I really do agree with your criticism though. People worry about FB's privacy issues, but then totally overlook all of Google's builtin privacy issues.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    My pixel doesn't have google+ installed. But I can use the play store. And I am not sure what spyware apps you are referring to.
LeonM 8y ago
> Is that what you call crapware? I called it bloat, not crapware. I did so because I don't use OneDrive, Excel etc, but my phone won't allow me to uninstall them via the conventional way. By my definition that's bloat.
dbuder 8y ago
LinkedIn is cancer.
dspillett 8y ago
> they're not removed, but they don't impact the system in any way aside from taking up a small chunk of your memory How are you defining "small"‽ I have Excel installed myself and it shows as 438MB. Word is smaller at 265MB, OneDrive is surprisingly chunky compared to that at 110MB. I've not got PowerPoint installed and Play store doesn't seem to currently display space requirements of non-installed apps (which I'm sure it previously did). That might be small on your 128Mb+ device (IIRC the Note 9 doesn't come in smaller variants) but if they are getting pre-installed on 64 or 32Mb devices too, that is more than enough to be a significant issue for users who don't particularly have use for them at all but who do want to use their storage for music/photos/video/... instead of unused apps.
- GuB-42 8y ago
  AFAIK, disable apps don't use up any useful memory at all. These apps sit in the system partition, which is read-only. If you root your phone, you can remount it read-write and remove them. However by doing so, integrity checks will fail. Also you won't be able to use that memory unless you repartition or put other apps there anyways. The bad news is that if you update pre-installed apps, the original version will stay in the system partition doing nothing while you use the version you downloaded in the data partition. It was a really big problem with early Android devices like the Nexus One (512 MB of storage).
driverdan 8y ago
> Is that what you call crapware? Yes, especially LinkedIn. I do not want any software offered by or affiliated with LinkedIn installed on a device I own.
Bartweiss 8y ago
It's probably worth distinguishing 'bloatware' from 'crapware', even if Wikipedia does consider them synonyms. Roughly, I'd say that bloatware is anything preinstalled that's not filling a core use-case for the device, plus literally anything unremovable that isn't part of core functionality. So Messages isn't bloatware, but Messages+ and Samsung Health are. The first standard is sort of a fuzzy with general-purpose devices like computers and tablets, the second is pretty clearcut. Crapware, to my mind, is "bloatware + shovelware". It's preinstalled stuff that's broken, malicious, redundant, or outside of standard use. Samsung Gallery is crappy, Superfish was malicious, VZ Navigator is basically a scam (paid, bad Google Maps), and the NFL app is worthless to a huge fraction of users. The Office suite is very popular and highly functional, so I'd give it a pass if it could be uninstalled. Since it can't, it's bloatware. OneDrive is on the line; it's a popular complement to Office, but it's vendor-specific in a way that opening documents isn't. (Low-impact is not at all a defense; the 'disabled' state is nice for quick reinstalls, but there's no user-friendly argument for not allowing deletion.) LinkedIn is absolutely crapware of the worst kind. It can't be uninstalled. It's irrelevant to a huge fraction of users (anyone who doesn't work). Its provided for the benefit of one company in a crowded space, whereas Office is a clear market leader. It's redundant functionality with a simple website, where Office is only partially duplicated by OpenOffice and Google Drive. And worst of all? It actively hurts users. When LinkedIn lost its user data in 2012, the breach was made substantially worse because their iOs app scraped and uploader user data (including calendar info!) without permission. Permanently preinstalling an app that's largely useless and has already contributed to a major data breach is far outside what I consider acceptable behavior.

code_duck 8y ago

I would use none of those. How about having the option to install them or not, like normal software?

paulie_a 8y ago

If it isnt pure Android, and ships with apps you can't uninstall through normal means, it is crapware. They shouldn't be installed in the first place. And LinkedIn isn't crapware, it's shitware

zeusk 8y ago
Google+ and ancillary Google spyware must be installed by default for playstore compatibility test suite to pass. Is that pure android? Bloat? Crapware? Or just plain shit?
- tssva 8y ago
  Apple also ships with a bunch of their apps that I would classify as crapware but unlike on Android I can't replace them as defaults with 3rf party apps of my choosing.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    These also happen to coincide with the apps that you can't delete from your device. Apple refuses to give third-party developers access to sensitive APIs, such as those relating to the Phone app or SMS, due to the potential for abuse.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  I think this is a valid criticism of stock android phones -- even ones sold directly by Google. But it's a slightly different criticism than the main crapware criticism here because FB is really a 3rd party. I really do agree with your criticism though. People worry about FB's privacy issues, but then totally overlook all of Google's builtin privacy issues.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  My pixel doesn't have google+ installed. But I can use the play store. And I am not sure what spyware apps you are referring to.

LeonM 8y ago

> Is that what you call crapware? I called it bloat, not crapware. I did so because I don't use OneDrive, Excel etc, but my phone won't allow me to uninstall them via the conventional way. By my definition that's bloat.

dbuder 8y ago

LinkedIn is cancer.

dspillett 8y ago

> they're not removed, but they don't impact the system in any way aside from taking up a small chunk of your memory How are you defining "small"‽ I have Excel installed myself and it shows as 438MB. Word is smaller at 265MB, OneDrive is surprisingly chunky compared to that at 110MB. I've not got PowerPoint installed and Play store doesn't seem to currently display space requirements of non-installed apps (which I'm sure it previously did). That might be small on your 128Mb+ device (IIRC the Note 9 doesn't come in smaller variants) but if they are getting pre-installed on 64 or 32Mb devices too, that is more than enough to be a significant issue for users who don't particularly have use for them at all but who do want to use their storage for music/photos/video/... instead of unused apps.

GuB-42 8y ago
AFAIK, disable apps don't use up any useful memory at all. These apps sit in the system partition, which is read-only. If you root your phone, you can remount it read-write and remove them. However by doing so, integrity checks will fail. Also you won't be able to use that memory unless you repartition or put other apps there anyways. The bad news is that if you update pre-installed apps, the original version will stay in the system partition doing nothing while you use the version you downloaded in the data partition. It was a really big problem with early Android devices like the Nexus One (512 MB of storage).

driverdan 8y ago

> Is that what you call crapware? Yes, especially LinkedIn. I do not want any software offered by or affiliated with LinkedIn installed on a device I own.

Bartweiss 8y ago

It's probably worth distinguishing 'bloatware' from 'crapware', even if Wikipedia does consider them synonyms. Roughly, I'd say that bloatware is anything preinstalled that's not filling a core use-case for the device, plus literally anything unremovable that isn't part of core functionality. So Messages isn't bloatware, but Messages+ and Samsung Health are. The first standard is sort of a fuzzy with general-purpose devices like computers and tablets, the second is pretty clearcut. Crapware, to my mind, is "bloatware + shovelware". It's preinstalled stuff that's broken, malicious, redundant, or outside of standard use. Samsung Gallery is crappy, Superfish was malicious, VZ Navigator is basically a scam (paid, bad Google Maps), and the NFL app is worthless to a huge fraction of users. The Office suite is very popular and highly functional, so I'd give it a pass if it could be uninstalled. Since it can't, it's bloatware. OneDrive is on the line; it's a popular complement to Office, but it's vendor-specific in a way that opening documents isn't. (Low-impact is not at all a defense; the 'disabled' state is nice for quick reinstalls, but there's no user-friendly argument for not allowing deletion.) LinkedIn is absolutely crapware of the worst kind. It can't be uninstalled. It's irrelevant to a huge fraction of users (anyone who doesn't work). Its provided for the benefit of one company in a crowded space, whereas Office is a clear market leader. It's redundant functionality with a simple website, where Office is only partially duplicated by OpenOffice and Google Drive. And worst of all? It actively hurts users. When LinkedIn lost its user data in 2012, the breach was made substantially worse because their iOs app scraped and uploader user data (including calendar info!) without permission. Permanently preinstalling an app that's largely useless and has already contributed to a major data breach is far outside what I consider acceptable behavior.