4 ms·

Geez, lighten up. Yes, some people definitely develop alcohol addiction but about 80% do not and are free to enjoy good quality drinks that not only give you a

Geez, lighten up. Yes, some people definitely develop alcohol addiction but about 80% do not and are free to enjoy good quality drinks that not only give you a buzz, but also potentially taste great like good wine or whisky or mezcal.

noarchy 8y ago
I think there is almost a neo-Prohibitionist attitude coming from some, of late. Though this is largely anecdotal, I think it got ratcheted up by the movement to see marijuana legalized, where weed has often been compared to alcohol. Aside from this, I agree that the vast majority can enjoy these substances without destroying themselves, leading very productive lives with some of the evident downsides that even casual consumption can bring.
- mattkrause 8y ago
  I always wonder how much publication bias exists in these fields: “Drug X isn’t that bad for you” seems like it might be a lot harder to publish than series of papers ratcheting up the severity of some bad effects.
obstacle1 8y ago
The entire point of this thread is that even small doses of alcohol -- doses well within what we consider to be moderate drinking -- have fairly extreme negative effects on memory. This is a problem even for the 80% of drinkers who do not develop alcohol addiction. As we start to actually study the effects of alcohol, it really looks like it is a hard drug with no net positive effects at anything over a minuscule dose.
- mruts 8y ago
  I mean, it’s gotten me laid a bunch, and also has had me make new friends. Also a promotion (probably)
  - drawkbox 8y ago
    Taking that further, it has also probably had a considerable effect on population numbers. Alcohol probably adds to the birth rate.
    - usrusr 8y ago
      I'm not sure how well that hypothesis would hold up in a quick comparison of alcohol consumption per capita vs birth rate. Space aliens looking at those numbers might even mistake alcohol for a mild contraceptive.
      - drawkbox 8y ago
        Possibly at the high end of consumption, also possibly, your parents had a glass of wine or a dash of alcohol just before your conception.
      - randomdata 8y ago
        A prevailing theory is that humans started engaging in agriculture, which was less efficient than hunting and gathering in the start, because of the desire to consume alcohol. It is difficult to argue that agriculture has not had a dramatic effect on population numbers.
- Smithalicious 8y ago
  "net positive effect" is subjective. Drinking is fun and eases social interactions; I personally value that more than whatever downsides there might be to memory formation.
minikites 8y ago
There's increasing evidence showing that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption and that the supposed benefits are outweighed by the harms: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45283401 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45283401 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_(physical_harm_and_dependence,_NA_free_means).svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Development_of_a_rat... I think outlawing it now would be about as successful as the first Prohibition in the USA (i.e. not at all) but I do think it should be regulated more closely (e.g. very strong restrictions on alcohol advertising and perhaps plain packaging and black box warnings similar to cigarette packaging) and that the dangers of alcohol should be taught more widely.
- vasilipupkin 8y ago
  This evidence is extremely weak. I urge you to read the actual paper itself. Basically you can nullify all that evidence if you don’t drink and drive.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Poster is not wrong though, we've banned drugs for much less.
par 8y ago
You'll find that alcohol is a lot like cigarettes. Cigarettes used to be everywhere, even doctors would prescribe cigarettes to their patients. Then people started slowly waking up to the idea that nicotine is a highly addictive and toxic substance. People started looking at cigarettes differently, they stopped putting cigs in movies, and people stopped glamorizing cigarettes in the media. Now we have big warnings on all cigarettes saying how bad they are for you. In some circles it is even uncool to smoke cigs.
- samatman 8y ago
  Addictive, certainly. Toxic at normal doses? Evidence says no. Carbon monoxide, tar, and tiny soot particles are very bad for you. Nicotine? Not so much. Addiction is annoying as hell and I don’t recommend it. But let’s be accurate.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Which evidence? Before modern pesticides came along nicotine was used to fumigate greenhouses. Suggests to me that it must be fairly toxic.

noarchy 8y ago

I think there is almost a neo-Prohibitionist attitude coming from some, of late. Though this is largely anecdotal, I think it got ratcheted up by the movement to see marijuana legalized, where weed has often been compared to alcohol. Aside from this, I agree that the vast majority can enjoy these substances without destroying themselves, leading very productive lives with some of the evident downsides that even casual consumption can bring.

mattkrause 8y ago
I always wonder how much publication bias exists in these fields: “Drug X isn’t that bad for you” seems like it might be a lot harder to publish than series of papers ratcheting up the severity of some bad effects.

obstacle1 8y ago

The entire point of this thread is that even small doses of alcohol -- doses well within what we consider to be moderate drinking -- have fairly extreme negative effects on memory. This is a problem even for the 80% of drinkers who do not develop alcohol addiction. As we start to actually study the effects of alcohol, it really looks like it is a hard drug with no net positive effects at anything over a minuscule dose.

mruts 8y ago
I mean, it’s gotten me laid a bunch, and also has had me make new friends. Also a promotion (probably)
- drawkbox 8y ago
  Taking that further, it has also probably had a considerable effect on population numbers. Alcohol probably adds to the birth rate.
  - usrusr 8y ago
    I'm not sure how well that hypothesis would hold up in a quick comparison of alcohol consumption per capita vs birth rate. Space aliens looking at those numbers might even mistake alcohol for a mild contraceptive.
    - drawkbox 8y ago
      Possibly at the high end of consumption, also possibly, your parents had a glass of wine or a dash of alcohol just before your conception.
    - randomdata 8y ago
      A prevailing theory is that humans started engaging in agriculture, which was less efficient than hunting and gathering in the start, because of the desire to consume alcohol. It is difficult to argue that agriculture has not had a dramatic effect on population numbers.
Smithalicious 8y ago
"net positive effect" is subjective. Drinking is fun and eases social interactions; I personally value that more than whatever downsides there might be to memory formation.

minikites 8y ago

There's increasing evidence showing that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption and that the supposed benefits are outweighed by the harms: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45283401 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45283401 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_(physical_harm_and_dependence,_NA_free_means).svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Development_of_a_rat... I think outlawing it now would be about as successful as the first Prohibition in the USA (i.e. not at all) but I do think it should be regulated more closely (e.g. very strong restrictions on alcohol advertising and perhaps plain packaging and black box warnings similar to cigarette packaging) and that the dangers of alcohol should be taught more widely.

vasilipupkin 8y ago
This evidence is extremely weak. I urge you to read the actual paper itself. Basically you can nullify all that evidence if you don’t drink and drive.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

Poster is not wrong though, we've banned drugs for much less.

par 8y ago

You'll find that alcohol is a lot like cigarettes. Cigarettes used to be everywhere, even doctors would prescribe cigarettes to their patients. Then people started slowly waking up to the idea that nicotine is a highly addictive and toxic substance. People started looking at cigarettes differently, they stopped putting cigs in movies, and people stopped glamorizing cigarettes in the media. Now we have big warnings on all cigarettes saying how bad they are for you. In some circles it is even uncool to smoke cigs.

samatman 8y ago
Addictive, certainly. Toxic at normal doses? Evidence says no. Carbon monoxide, tar, and tiny soot particles are very bad for you. Nicotine? Not so much. Addiction is annoying as hell and I don’t recommend it. But let’s be accurate.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Which evidence? Before modern pesticides came along nicotine was used to fumigate greenhouses. Suggests to me that it must be fairly toxic.