4 ms·

The bail system itself is abhorrent if there isn’t a reason to lock you up until trial then you shouldn’t be locked up, if there is you shouldn’t be able to buy

The bail system itself is abhorrent if there isn’t a reason to lock you up until trial then you shouldn’t be locked up, if there is you shouldn’t be able to buy your way out. Most other countries have figured out how to serve justice without a system that discriminates against the poor. Too many people can’t afford the down payment or can offer a collateral to get a bail financed those who can end up being indebted to them you are advocating for the legalization of loan sharks.

zorga 8y ago
Most other countries don't have our intractable political system; bondsman solve a problem, they let people get out of jail when the government is being absurd.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  And do you think the bondsmen don’t have an incentive to keep the status quo? It’s a multi billion dollar industry which effectively taxes the poor. Make bounties illegal and it fill fall, once it falls the entire bail system in the US will have to be rethought as there isn’t a way to lock so many people up, more judges will release them until trial without setting a bail which they can already legally do and do so for minor offenses.
  - zorga 8y ago
    You're putting the cart before the horse; until you change the government and thus the bail system, we need bondsman. Making bounties illegal won't stop judges from setting bails people can't afford and is thus not a valid solution.
    - dingoegret 8y ago
      Very dumb argument. There is no cart and there is no horse. Eliminate the bail system and something has to fill the void.
      - a11595 8y ago
        His argument is a common expression, not meant to be translated literally to whatever your first language is. It means don't take a tylenol for the pain - take an antibiotic to kill the bacteria causing the pain. maybe you don't get basic medicine either. I can't explain this to you. You need to go back to r/poland so you don't have to translate.
      - Klover 8y ago
        I remember seeing one in LA. I thought it was fake! Like a tourist attraction.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      There are several states with no private bail including Oregon and Massachusetts somehow I doubt that offenders in those states are worse off. In a country where judges are elected a multi billion dollar has a lot of power in determining how bail is set by the courts. If you think that judges that get donations from bondsmen don’t take that into account when setting bail you are very naive. This is the exact same problem as private prisons the justice system should not be monetized for profit.
      - pinot 8y ago
        You finally explained a mystery to me why growing up in Oregon, I've never seen a bailbond place with its flashy neon signs and general run-down areas outside of courthouses. Something I became fairly familiar with moving around California.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    Bounty hunters are not universal. For example, here in Oregon they are illegal.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      There is also no private bail in Oregon afaik, but I think only 5 states or so are like that.
      - rootusrootus 8y ago
        Yep, we set a bond, and you can pay 10% to the court to bail yourself out. If you skip, the sheriff is the one who will come for you. Though in practice most people are released on their own recognizance, no bond is set except for serious cases. Also, Oregon doesn't just outlaw bounty hunters as part of our own process, we outlaw them altogether. Bounty hunting is classified as kidnapping. While there are many things Oregon could do better, there are a whole bunch of things, like this, which I think we are absolutely right on.
- kakarot 8y ago
  I grew up in a town where the mayor was the bail bondsman. His son was the district prosecutor. A perfect, no-frills example of the typical dynamic between bail bondsmen and government. How strange that I received the maximum possible bail amount for a crime that I didn't even commit. Surely there couldn't have been an incentive for the son of the guy who makes the laws to illegally prosecute and fine a minor whose only way to finish graduating high school is to pay the damn fine, so that the guy who makes the laws could collect that fine... That would just be corrupt.
vsl 8y ago
Bail is a common mechanism outside of US too.
- Legogris 8y ago
  Depositing money as part of bail is only really a practice in the U.S. and Philippines. https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/oct/09/gavin-newsom/are-us-philippines-only-two-countries-money-bail/ https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/oct/09... > "Only Duterte’s Philippines and Trump’s United States of America have money bail."
  - p0ckets 8y ago
    Canada has bail too. In recent news https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/huawei-meng-wanzhou-bail-hearing-vancouver-1.4940849 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/huawei-meng-...
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      It’s not about the amount of bail but rather the price of a bond. If the bond costs 10% then you can’t pay bail if it’s set to 10 million or even a million or even lower for most people, if it’s capped at say $100 something that even some US states do then it’s not as much of a problem. If you look at the US bondsman industry it’s focused on the states not with the highest average bail set but those with the highest prices on bail bonds.

zorga 8y ago

Most other countries don't have our intractable political system; bondsman solve a problem, they let people get out of jail when the government is being absurd.

dogma1138 8y ago
And do you think the bondsmen don’t have an incentive to keep the status quo? It’s a multi billion dollar industry which effectively taxes the poor. Make bounties illegal and it fill fall, once it falls the entire bail system in the US will have to be rethought as there isn’t a way to lock so many people up, more judges will release them until trial without setting a bail which they can already legally do and do so for minor offenses.
- zorga 8y ago
  You're putting the cart before the horse; until you change the government and thus the bail system, we need bondsman. Making bounties illegal won't stop judges from setting bails people can't afford and is thus not a valid solution.
  - dingoegret 8y ago
    Very dumb argument. There is no cart and there is no horse. Eliminate the bail system and something has to fill the void.
    - a11595 8y ago
      His argument is a common expression, not meant to be translated literally to whatever your first language is. It means don't take a tylenol for the pain - take an antibiotic to kill the bacteria causing the pain. maybe you don't get basic medicine either. I can't explain this to you. You need to go back to r/poland so you don't have to translate.
    - Klover 8y ago
      I remember seeing one in LA. I thought it was fake! Like a tourist attraction.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    There are several states with no private bail including Oregon and Massachusetts somehow I doubt that offenders in those states are worse off. In a country where judges are elected a multi billion dollar has a lot of power in determining how bail is set by the courts. If you think that judges that get donations from bondsmen don’t take that into account when setting bail you are very naive. This is the exact same problem as private prisons the justice system should not be monetized for profit.
    - pinot 8y ago
      You finally explained a mystery to me why growing up in Oregon, I've never seen a bailbond place with its flashy neon signs and general run-down areas outside of courthouses. Something I became fairly familiar with moving around California.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Bounty hunters are not universal. For example, here in Oregon they are illegal.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    There is also no private bail in Oregon afaik, but I think only 5 states or so are like that.
    - rootusrootus 8y ago
      Yep, we set a bond, and you can pay 10% to the court to bail yourself out. If you skip, the sheriff is the one who will come for you. Though in practice most people are released on their own recognizance, no bond is set except for serious cases. Also, Oregon doesn't just outlaw bounty hunters as part of our own process, we outlaw them altogether. Bounty hunting is classified as kidnapping. While there are many things Oregon could do better, there are a whole bunch of things, like this, which I think we are absolutely right on.
kakarot 8y ago
I grew up in a town where the mayor was the bail bondsman. His son was the district prosecutor. A perfect, no-frills example of the typical dynamic between bail bondsmen and government. How strange that I received the maximum possible bail amount for a crime that I didn't even commit. Surely there couldn't have been an incentive for the son of the guy who makes the laws to illegally prosecute and fine a minor whose only way to finish graduating high school is to pay the damn fine, so that the guy who makes the laws could collect that fine... That would just be corrupt.

vsl 8y ago

Bail is a common mechanism outside of US too.

Legogris 8y ago
Depositing money as part of bail is only really a practice in the U.S. and Philippines. https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/oct/09/gavin-newsom/are-us-philippines-only-two-countries-money-bail/ https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/oct/09... > "Only Duterte’s Philippines and Trump’s United States of America have money bail."
- p0ckets 8y ago
  Canada has bail too. In recent news https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/huawei-meng-wanzhou-bail-hearing-vancouver-1.4940849 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/huawei-meng-...
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    It’s not about the amount of bail but rather the price of a bond. If the bond costs 10% then you can’t pay bail if it’s set to 10 million or even a million or even lower for most people, if it’s capped at say $100 something that even some US states do then it’s not as much of a problem. If you look at the US bondsman industry it’s focused on the states not with the highest average bail set but those with the highest prices on bail bonds.