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I don't know, may be it is just me, but I noticed people here at HN don't have respect about agile. Is this the case?

by caustic 16y ago

pan69 16y ago
One place I worked the project managers where very enthusiastic about using Agile techniques. When I questioned them about it, it turned out that Agile to them meant "make stuff up as you go along". To them it just meant that they could resign all sense of responsibility, didn't had to do any planning or documentation. How great is that?
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  My project manager is very fond of Agile - he doesn't have to interview, estimate nor understand the schedule any more - he abdicates it to a post-standup meeting where he quizzes everybody about their cards and edits them. Result: So now I'm doing the manager's job too. I find it a waste of time, at least when implemented this way. The single bright spot: at least no more 2-hour rambling staff meetings!
steveklabnik 16y ago
It depends; sometimes, you'll see a huge pro-agile crowd, other times, not so much. This is accentuated if you s/agile/tdd/g;. I'd wager this is largely due to how one is first exposed to agile methodologies. I'm young enough that I stumbled across agile as a way to solve problems, and so it sounds pretty good to me. However, my slightly older colleagues remember agile as the Newest Management Fad, with high priced consultants, seminars, certifications, and your boss paying lip service to change while still Not Getting It to match. I like agile's philosophy, but I can certainly see lots of criticisms of Agile.
- DrStalker 16y ago
  My first experience with Agile was a housemate describing this amazing new design system that meant he could get right into coding without any tedious planning and sort everything out later. He created a startup for his pet project, eventually managed to get one customer for his product and then realised his idea was fundementally flawed and would never be commerically viable or even supportable. That is still my impression of Agile - full speed ahead, buzzwords to maximum power and hope for the best.
nickelplate 16y ago
I always preemptively raise my eyebrows when I come across an article about agile because, in my experience, agile is mostly used by hit-and-run managers as an excuse to avoid making the hard decisions. Apparently, "embrace change" makes it okay to randomly interrupt people in their work to solve the urgency du jour, only to blame them when they miss their deadline. "Daily scrums" give the manager the green light to avoid one-on-one interactions with his team members. Interestingly, the best development teams rarely display overt enthusiasm for their "methodology" and just get work done.
kschrader 16y ago
The problem is that "agile" doesn't mean anything. On my team we follow an agile approach, but we also have rough ideas on product direction for the next year or so and themed releases planned out for the next few months. For us it all comes down to an understanding that if something else comes up then some of these features are going to have to slip to get other things in. It also means not building things that we ultimately aren't going to use. If you just think that Agile means "don't plan, just do whatever you want" (i.e. Chaos) then of course you're going to hate it. No one can work like that.

I don't know, may be it is just me, but I noticed people here at HN don't have respect about agile. Is this the case?

by caustic 16y ago

I don't know, may be it is just me, but I noticed people here at HN don't have respect about agile. Is this the case?

pan69 16y ago

One place I worked the project managers where very enthusiastic about using Agile techniques. When I questioned them about it, it turned out that Agile to them meant "make stuff up as you go along". To them it just meant that they could resign all sense of responsibility, didn't had to do any planning or documentation. How great is that?

JoeAltmaier 16y ago
My project manager is very fond of Agile - he doesn't have to interview, estimate nor understand the schedule any more - he abdicates it to a post-standup meeting where he quizzes everybody about their cards and edits them. Result: So now I'm doing the manager's job too. I find it a waste of time, at least when implemented this way. The single bright spot: at least no more 2-hour rambling staff meetings!

steveklabnik 16y ago

It depends; sometimes, you'll see a huge pro-agile crowd, other times, not so much. This is accentuated if you s/agile/tdd/g;. I'd wager this is largely due to how one is first exposed to agile methodologies. I'm young enough that I stumbled across agile as a way to solve problems, and so it sounds pretty good to me. However, my slightly older colleagues remember agile as the Newest Management Fad, with high priced consultants, seminars, certifications, and your boss paying lip service to change while still Not Getting It to match. I like agile's philosophy, but I can certainly see lots of criticisms of Agile.

DrStalker 16y ago
My first experience with Agile was a housemate describing this amazing new design system that meant he could get right into coding without any tedious planning and sort everything out later. He created a startup for his pet project, eventually managed to get one customer for his product and then realised his idea was fundementally flawed and would never be commerically viable or even supportable. That is still my impression of Agile - full speed ahead, buzzwords to maximum power and hope for the best.

nickelplate 16y ago

I always preemptively raise my eyebrows when I come across an article about agile because, in my experience, agile is mostly used by hit-and-run managers as an excuse to avoid making the hard decisions. Apparently, "embrace change" makes it okay to randomly interrupt people in their work to solve the urgency du jour, only to blame them when they miss their deadline. "Daily scrums" give the manager the green light to avoid one-on-one interactions with his team members. Interestingly, the best development teams rarely display overt enthusiasm for their "methodology" and just get work done.

kschrader 16y ago

The problem is that "agile" doesn't mean anything. On my team we follow an agile approach, but we also have rough ideas on product direction for the next year or so and themed releases planned out for the next few months. For us it all comes down to an understanding that if something else comes up then some of these features are going to have to slip to get other things in. It also means not building things that we ultimately aren't going to use. If you just think that Agile means "don't plan, just do whatever you want" (i.e. Chaos) then of course you're going to hate it. No one can work like that.