4 ms·

Does PG have kids? I'm not advocating ignoring the essay if he doesn't. But just as I'm leery of taking startup advice from someone who hasn't done one, I'd b

by sanj 18y ago

Does PG have kids? I'm not advocating ignoring the essay if he doesn't. But just as I'm leery of taking startup advice from someone who hasn't done one, I'd be tempted to discount this a bit. The issue is that there are forces afoot in your brain when you have kids which are deep, powerful and extraordinarily difficult to ignore. Pre-mammalian lower-reptilian brain stuff. Wanting to protect them is one of those.

byrneseyeview 18y ago
You think his lack of kids would bias him when observing parents? Isn't this more or less the opposite of what courts argue -- that e.g. a judge who owns Microsoft stock should not be ruling on a Microsoft antitrust case, even if he is the only one who really knows what it would feel like for the shareholders were they walloped with a giant fine?
- sanj 18y ago
  That's a very interesting point! But it seems like you'd want a judge who had at least been a stockholder, though not one in this particular company. Would either side consider a judge that stored his life savings in his mattress and disagreed with the right of corporations to be valid? The different (and I'll admit I'm on thin ice here) is that kids have a visceral component that is difficult to ignore. If I drop a brick on my bare foot and yell loudly, would it be more appropriate for someone else, who has never dropped such a brick, to judge whether or not I should have yelled?
  - llimllib 18y ago
    > The different (and I'll admit I'm on thin ice here) is that kids have a visceral component that is difficult to ignore. Exactly - and thus there is value in having a neutral(ish) observer of the parenting process.
    - sanj 18y ago
      By that argument, all OBGYNs should be men. Or women who've not been pregnant.
      - llimllib 18y ago
        negative, ghostrider. Suggesting that a male obgyn may have a different and valuable perspective from a female obgyn is not the same as suggesting that all OBGYNs should be men. To be explicit, I don't claim that all articles about parenthood should be written by non-parents, just that there's a particular type of value in ones that are, since they may more successfully divorce themselves from the visceral feelings of attachment that parents have towards their children.
        sanj 18y ago
        You're right. So the question then becomes: "Does a male obgyn may have a different and valuable perspective from a female obgyn?"
        Xichekolas 18y ago
        How subjective is gynecology? How much room is there for 'perspective'? I think the metaphor has been taken too far to be useful here.
  - iloveyouocean 18y ago
    I would rather have a judge that impartially followed the law and was not swayed by his personal life circumstances or beliefs.
sanj 18y ago
As a followup, it'd be interesting to know if any of the reviewers have raised kids.
- jgrahamc 18y ago
  I have. This essay does not describe my approach to parenting, but I know parents like that. Made me wonder if PG's SO is expecting.
- pchristensen 18y ago
  I have a one month old and a 2.5yr old. Even before reading this, I've caught myself telling lies (or hiding truths) with my older kid. We were watching a show about baboons on Animal Planet and the dominant male baboon killed and ate a baby impala (more graphically than I expected them to show). I was going to change the channel, but I asked myself "Why is it bad if my kid knows that some animals eat other animals?" I left it on and talked to her about how some animals get food. I also told her that it's different with people, because we've more or less agreed to let every person live. Then I was going to change the channel again when there was a (again, more graphic than I expected) fight, I left it on and told her that animals fight, but it's not OK for people to fight. Something like "Animals fight, people hug". So I guess I picked my lies, but I was conscious of it. My guiding principle is that I will 1) instruct my kids on correct and appropriate behavior 2) let them know that people have different expectations and not everyone behaves as well as I expect them to. PS My wife was pissed that I let her watch the baboons killing and fighting :)
  - yters 18y ago
    I think it is a sort of lie to tell someone the truth in a context they can't handle appropriately. So, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. It'd be wrong if you never stopped telling her such things.
Prrometheus 18y ago
As a descriptive account of what people do, he doesn't need kids. As a prescription for what people ought to do, we might trust someone more who has been through the process themself.
gruseom 18y ago
Having kids is one thing that would allow you to speak on this topic from personal experience. Having been a kid is another.
run4yourlives 18y ago
PG may not have kids, but I do. His observations of parenting are true nonetheless.
Mistone 18y ago
a good point, essay gets downgraded a bit due to fact that the author does not have direct experience, but like startups, just because you've done one does not make you good at it, and many of the most interesting are first timers (see facebook/google/and most yc co.'s). This essay would be better if he was expecting and thus thinking a lot about being a parent.

by sanj 18y ago

byrneseyeview 18y ago

You think his lack of kids would bias him when observing parents? Isn't this more or less the opposite of what courts argue -- that e.g. a judge who owns Microsoft stock should not be ruling on a Microsoft antitrust case, even if he is the only one who really knows what it would feel like for the shareholders were they walloped with a giant fine?

sanj 18y ago
That's a very interesting point! But it seems like you'd want a judge who had at least been a stockholder, though not one in this particular company. Would either side consider a judge that stored his life savings in his mattress and disagreed with the right of corporations to be valid? The different (and I'll admit I'm on thin ice here) is that kids have a visceral component that is difficult to ignore. If I drop a brick on my bare foot and yell loudly, would it be more appropriate for someone else, who has never dropped such a brick, to judge whether or not I should have yelled?
- llimllib 18y ago
  > The different (and I'll admit I'm on thin ice here) is that kids have a visceral component that is difficult to ignore. Exactly - and thus there is value in having a neutral(ish) observer of the parenting process.
  - sanj 18y ago
    By that argument, all OBGYNs should be men. Or women who've not been pregnant.
    - llimllib 18y ago
      negative, ghostrider. Suggesting that a male obgyn may have a different and valuable perspective from a female obgyn is not the same as suggesting that all OBGYNs should be men. To be explicit, I don't claim that all articles about parenthood should be written by non-parents, just that there's a particular type of value in ones that are, since they may more successfully divorce themselves from the visceral feelings of attachment that parents have towards their children.
      - sanj 18y ago
        You're right. So the question then becomes: "Does a male obgyn may have a different and valuable perspective from a female obgyn?"
        Xichekolas 18y ago
        How subjective is gynecology? How much room is there for 'perspective'? I think the metaphor has been taken too far to be useful here.
- iloveyouocean 18y ago
  I would rather have a judge that impartially followed the law and was not swayed by his personal life circumstances or beliefs.

sanj 18y ago

As a followup, it'd be interesting to know if any of the reviewers have raised kids.

jgrahamc 18y ago
I have. This essay does not describe my approach to parenting, but I know parents like that. Made me wonder if PG's SO is expecting.
pchristensen 18y ago
I have a one month old and a 2.5yr old. Even before reading this, I've caught myself telling lies (or hiding truths) with my older kid. We were watching a show about baboons on Animal Planet and the dominant male baboon killed and ate a baby impala (more graphically than I expected them to show). I was going to change the channel, but I asked myself "Why is it bad if my kid knows that some animals eat other animals?" I left it on and talked to her about how some animals get food. I also told her that it's different with people, because we've more or less agreed to let every person live. Then I was going to change the channel again when there was a (again, more graphic than I expected) fight, I left it on and told her that animals fight, but it's not OK for people to fight. Something like "Animals fight, people hug". So I guess I picked my lies, but I was conscious of it. My guiding principle is that I will 1) instruct my kids on correct and appropriate behavior 2) let them know that people have different expectations and not everyone behaves as well as I expect them to. PS My wife was pissed that I let her watch the baboons killing and fighting :)
- yters 18y ago
  I think it is a sort of lie to tell someone the truth in a context they can't handle appropriately. So, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. It'd be wrong if you never stopped telling her such things.

Prrometheus 18y ago

As a descriptive account of what people do, he doesn't need kids. As a prescription for what people ought to do, we might trust someone more who has been through the process themself.

gruseom 18y ago

Having kids is one thing that would allow you to speak on this topic from personal experience. Having been a kid is another.

run4yourlives 18y ago

PG may not have kids, but I do. His observations of parenting are true nonetheless.

Mistone 18y ago

a good point, essay gets downgraded a bit due to fact that the author does not have direct experience, but like startups, just because you've done one does not make you good at it, and many of the most interesting are first timers (see facebook/google/and most yc co.'s). This essay would be better if he was expecting and thus thinking a lot about being a parent.