4 ms·

Firstly, I think (though I could be wrong) that when they talk about privacy concerns they mean the sort of concerns the average person would have about having

Firstly, I think (though I could be wrong) that when they talk about privacy concerns they mean the sort of concerns the average person would have about having a camera about... I.e. naked or compromising pictures of themselves getting leaked. I would guess this wouldn't be a problem with radar as it doesn't create images. Out of curiosity though, not having much knowledge on the subject myself, what would be your security concerns? I would be genuinely interested in knowing what we should be looking out for, privacy wise, with such technology.

crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
Emotional manipulation. Using radar to detect emotional states with 70% accuracy for the general public was achieved 2 years ago by the EQ Radio team at MIT. They did this by detecting breathing & heart rate at a level of accuracy on par with wired sensors. This tech works through walls for multiple people at a time, whether they're sitting still or moving. The world is not emotionally responsible enough to protect against this tech. http://eqradio.csail.mit.edu http://eqradio.csail.mit.edu
- Evidlo 8y ago
  Pretty sure their heartbeat and breathing detection was for still bodies only. I sat through one of their presentations. Definitely cool, but I think a bit overhyped.
  - crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
    So we may have some time to prepare ourselves culturally before the tech is production ready.
Retric 8y ago
Radar can create images just not true to life color photos. But, leak such a photo of a couple in their bedroom with the blinds closed and you have a problem.
- trumped 8y ago
  I can see through my blinds with a regular Nikon 300mm zoom lens .... I think because there is enough light going through the bunch of holes?
  - Retric 8y ago
    If you mean from the inside that’s a question of contrast. Look at a tv in a dark room through one side of a t-shirt a few inches from your face and it’s a non issue. Try the same while the side facing you is well lit and it does not work. Under some situations you can see through thin cloth blinds like this from the outside, but that’s mostly poor blind choices.
    - trumped 8y ago
      It's actually a blind on my backporch similar to this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rijF9vnlL._SL1001_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rijF9vnlL... , but it has tiny gaps in-between each slats... I could see through the blind when I was zoomed in to 300mm while being a meter away from it... I could see my neighbor's house and the slats were invisible in the picture. Kind of creepy but I don't have this camera anymore so I cannot do anymore tests...
darkpuma 8y ago
> "I.e. naked or compromising pictures of themselves getting leaked. I would guess this wouldn't be a problem with radar as it doesn't create images." Give 'the internet' access to this technology and it will probably only take a week for perverts to weaponize it and fetishize it.
- claudiawerner 8y ago
  If the technology were fetishised, the tech itself would acquire the status of fetish, which isn't the same as the tech being used to ends of fulfilling a fetish (e.g voyeurism). Some brands arguably promote technology fetishism, but fetishism isn't necessarily sexual, for instance the theory of commodity fetishism.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    Just to be clear, I'm talking about weird dudes with prurient motivations scanning unconsenting people through the walls of their homes.
    - joncrane 8y ago
      I think in this case you want to replace "fetishize" with "pervert." The verb, not the noun, but the word fits.
    - ethbro 8y ago
      To expound, why people are taking issue with word choice: fet·ish·ize - verb - Make (something) the object of a sexual fetish. Ergo, fetishizing the technology prolly isn't what you meant.
      - mc32 8y ago
        I think it's pretty clear that they meant using the technology to fulfil a (sexual) fetish. Granted, it's not ordinary usage, but in context, I think the meaning was decipherable.
      - 8y ago
NorthOf33rd 8y ago
Don’t confuse privacy with secrecy. I know what you do in the bathroom, but you still close the door. That’s because you want privacy, not secrecy. (From I have nothing to hide. Why should I care about my privacy? : https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why... https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why...) From a previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14394863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14394863 google has no business needing to know where I am or am not. (even though they already do, thanks android/google-fi/chrome-cast/nest/etc etc.)
- rrauenza 8y ago
  Your Medium link didn't work -- here it is after a google search: https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why-should-i-care-about-my-privacy-f488281b8f1d https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why...
- badrabbit 8y ago
  s/secrecy/confidentiality/ But privacy is relevant here. Easy example: a person whispering,their private conversation no loses it's privacy due to lip movements being read. Two people enter a room and exchange an item for cash,with radar their transaction loses privacy.
kristianov 8y ago
Creating images with radar sounds like a fun GAN project. I mean we are already coloring animes [1] and line-arts [2, 3]. [1] http://kvfrans.com/coloring-and-shading-line-art-automatically-through-conditional-gans/ http://kvfrans.com/coloring-and-shading-line-art-automatical... [2] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1808.03240.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1808.03240.pdf [3] https://github.com/lllyasviel/style2paints https://github.com/lllyasviel/style2paints

crawfordcomeaux 8y ago

Emotional manipulation. Using radar to detect emotional states with 70% accuracy for the general public was achieved 2 years ago by the EQ Radio team at MIT. They did this by detecting breathing & heart rate at a level of accuracy on par with wired sensors. This tech works through walls for multiple people at a time, whether they're sitting still or moving. The world is not emotionally responsible enough to protect against this tech. http://eqradio.csail.mit.edu http://eqradio.csail.mit.edu

Evidlo 8y ago
Pretty sure their heartbeat and breathing detection was for still bodies only. I sat through one of their presentations. Definitely cool, but I think a bit overhyped.
- crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
  So we may have some time to prepare ourselves culturally before the tech is production ready.

Retric 8y ago

Radar can create images just not true to life color photos. But, leak such a photo of a couple in their bedroom with the blinds closed and you have a problem.

trumped 8y ago
I can see through my blinds with a regular Nikon 300mm zoom lens .... I think because there is enough light going through the bunch of holes?
- Retric 8y ago
  If you mean from the inside that’s a question of contrast. Look at a tv in a dark room through one side of a t-shirt a few inches from your face and it’s a non issue. Try the same while the side facing you is well lit and it does not work. Under some situations you can see through thin cloth blinds like this from the outside, but that’s mostly poor blind choices.
  - trumped 8y ago
    It's actually a blind on my backporch similar to this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rijF9vnlL._SL1001_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rijF9vnlL... , but it has tiny gaps in-between each slats... I could see through the blind when I was zoomed in to 300mm while being a meter away from it... I could see my neighbor's house and the slats were invisible in the picture. Kind of creepy but I don't have this camera anymore so I cannot do anymore tests...

darkpuma 8y ago

> "I.e. naked or compromising pictures of themselves getting leaked. I would guess this wouldn't be a problem with radar as it doesn't create images." Give 'the internet' access to this technology and it will probably only take a week for perverts to weaponize it and fetishize it.

claudiawerner 8y ago
If the technology were fetishised, the tech itself would acquire the status of fetish, which isn't the same as the tech being used to ends of fulfilling a fetish (e.g voyeurism). Some brands arguably promote technology fetishism, but fetishism isn't necessarily sexual, for instance the theory of commodity fetishism.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Just to be clear, I'm talking about weird dudes with prurient motivations scanning unconsenting people through the walls of their homes.
  - joncrane 8y ago
    I think in this case you want to replace "fetishize" with "pervert." The verb, not the noun, but the word fits.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    To expound, why people are taking issue with word choice: fet·ish·ize - verb - Make (something) the object of a sexual fetish. Ergo, fetishizing the technology prolly isn't what you meant.
    - mc32 8y ago
      I think it's pretty clear that they meant using the technology to fulfil a (sexual) fetish. Granted, it's not ordinary usage, but in context, I think the meaning was decipherable.
    - 8y ago

NorthOf33rd 8y ago

Don’t confuse privacy with secrecy. I know what you do in the bathroom, but you still close the door. That’s because you want privacy, not secrecy. (From I have nothing to hide. Why should I care about my privacy? : https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why... https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why...) From a previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14394863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14394863 google has no business needing to know where I am or am not. (even though they already do, thanks android/google-fi/chrome-cast/nest/etc etc.)

rrauenza 8y ago
Your Medium link didn't work -- here it is after a google search: https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why-should-i-care-about-my-privacy-f488281b8f1d https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why...
badrabbit 8y ago
s/secrecy/confidentiality/ But privacy is relevant here. Easy example: a person whispering,their private conversation no loses it's privacy due to lip movements being read. Two people enter a room and exchange an item for cash,with radar their transaction loses privacy.

kristianov 8y ago

Creating images with radar sounds like a fun GAN project. I mean we are already coloring animes [1] and line-arts [2, 3]. [1] http://kvfrans.com/coloring-and-shading-line-art-automatically-through-conditional-gans/ http://kvfrans.com/coloring-and-shading-line-art-automatical... [2] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1808.03240.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1808.03240.pdf [3] https://github.com/lllyasviel/style2paints https://github.com/lllyasviel/style2paints