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> “The allegation here would violate our contract and Privacy Policy,” an AT&T spokesperson told Motherboard in an email. That pretty much sums up how much ca

> “The allegation here would violate our contract and Privacy Policy,” an AT&T spokesperson told Motherboard in an email. That pretty much sums up how much carriers care about this. But it is nice to see Senator Ron Wyden is still doing good work, almost restores my faith in politics.

ducktypegoose 8y ago
Telco companies will keep selling data as long as it's profitable. If the company continues to sell data to the offending clients despite knowingly violating its terms, then a case could be made for negligence against the telco. In my eyes this practice, like many shady data-dealings, lacks legal precedence and its profitability will change as litigation mounts against the telcos. Furthermore national laws need individual cases to gain traction. Bad practices are bound to change when a few high profile cases end up in the courts. Feels funny to say this, but it seems like the world needs more lawyers.
axaxs 8y ago
Even as an independent that leans a bit right, I love Ron Wyden. I feel the US would be a much better country with a congress full of his type (even if not his ideas).
Spooky23 8y ago
This is why utilities need to be heavily regulated. Selling real time location data to wholesalers in the bail bonds industry? Who would think there would be abuse? Only license actions and criminal penalties will stop this kind of abuse.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Do we think skipping out on a bond is OK? If you are really wanting to do that, don't carry a phone around with you.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    I think that’s a scummy business known for not following the letter of the law.
    - cc439 8y ago
      It's a scummy business but without it bail bonds wouldn't exist, or at least be as widely available as they are today. Maybe there are better systems for ensuring compliance with orders to appesr in court than that of Bail but as long as the concept of Bail exists, private Bail Bonds will have to be a necessary part of the system lest lower/no-income individuals find themselves with no recourse.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > It's a scummy business but without it bail bonds wouldn't exist, or at least be as widely available as they are today. And...is that bad? The availability of bonds factors in to the level at which bail in a money bail system is set to give reasonable assurance of compliance, so the main effect of available bail bonds is to make purchasing a bond instead of paying cash necessary by driving up money bail prices. > Maybe there are better systems for ensuring compliance with orders to appesr in court than that of Bail Certainly there are better ideas than money bail structured to support a commercial bond industry. > but as long as the concept of Bail exists, private Bail Bonds will have to be a necessary part of the system No, because bail systems outside of the US and the Phillipines (as well as D.C. and California in the US) are not money bail systems.
        cc439 8y ago
        I wasn't aware that California eliminated the cash bail shstem last year but my cursory review of its replacement leaves me thinking its lacking in its ability to both accurately identify those who pose a risk to society or a general flight risk. Replacing a system that allows anyone granted the right of bail to obtain it (via bail bonds) with enforcement carried out via the threat of physical apprehension with one that tries to predict the risk before release leaves enormous room for error/gaps/all-other-flaws. It sounds good on paper but how does it account for a citizen of "good" character per the algorithm being charged with a major felony or violent crime? If they are innocent, there is a meaningful likelihood they are denied release, thus ruining their life. If they are guilty, there is a meaningful likelihood they aren't reputable enough to ignore the chance to cut off their ankle bracelet and go underground. Are there any systems that allow for something akin to "bail" (as in a way to be releaswd from custody while awaiting trial while also holding the individual accountable to return) that rely on things asids from cash or trust in an "algorithm"? I'm currently doing some reading on the subject so don't jump down my throat, I'm just skeptical of any other system's ability to balance availability with accountability for those with few to no assets.

ducktypegoose 8y ago

Telco companies will keep selling data as long as it's profitable. If the company continues to sell data to the offending clients despite knowingly violating its terms, then a case could be made for negligence against the telco. In my eyes this practice, like many shady data-dealings, lacks legal precedence and its profitability will change as litigation mounts against the telcos. Furthermore national laws need individual cases to gain traction. Bad practices are bound to change when a few high profile cases end up in the courts. Feels funny to say this, but it seems like the world needs more lawyers.

axaxs 8y ago

Even as an independent that leans a bit right, I love Ron Wyden. I feel the US would be a much better country with a congress full of his type (even if not his ideas).

Spooky23 8y ago

This is why utilities need to be heavily regulated. Selling real time location data to wholesalers in the bail bonds industry? Who would think there would be abuse? Only license actions and criminal penalties will stop this kind of abuse.

ams6110 8y ago
Do we think skipping out on a bond is OK? If you are really wanting to do that, don't carry a phone around with you.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  I think that’s a scummy business known for not following the letter of the law.
  - cc439 8y ago
    It's a scummy business but without it bail bonds wouldn't exist, or at least be as widely available as they are today. Maybe there are better systems for ensuring compliance with orders to appesr in court than that of Bail but as long as the concept of Bail exists, private Bail Bonds will have to be a necessary part of the system lest lower/no-income individuals find themselves with no recourse.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > It's a scummy business but without it bail bonds wouldn't exist, or at least be as widely available as they are today. And...is that bad? The availability of bonds factors in to the level at which bail in a money bail system is set to give reasonable assurance of compliance, so the main effect of available bail bonds is to make purchasing a bond instead of paying cash necessary by driving up money bail prices. > Maybe there are better systems for ensuring compliance with orders to appesr in court than that of Bail Certainly there are better ideas than money bail structured to support a commercial bond industry. > but as long as the concept of Bail exists, private Bail Bonds will have to be a necessary part of the system No, because bail systems outside of the US and the Phillipines (as well as D.C. and California in the US) are not money bail systems.
      - cc439 8y ago
        I wasn't aware that California eliminated the cash bail shstem last year but my cursory review of its replacement leaves me thinking its lacking in its ability to both accurately identify those who pose a risk to society or a general flight risk. Replacing a system that allows anyone granted the right of bail to obtain it (via bail bonds) with enforcement carried out via the threat of physical apprehension with one that tries to predict the risk before release leaves enormous room for error/gaps/all-other-flaws. It sounds good on paper but how does it account for a citizen of "good" character per the algorithm being charged with a major felony or violent crime? If they are innocent, there is a meaningful likelihood they are denied release, thus ruining their life. If they are guilty, there is a meaningful likelihood they aren't reputable enough to ignore the chance to cut off their ankle bracelet and go underground. Are there any systems that allow for something akin to "bail" (as in a way to be releaswd from custody while awaiting trial while also holding the individual accountable to return) that rely on things asids from cash or trust in an "algorithm"? I'm currently doing some reading on the subject so don't jump down my throat, I'm just skeptical of any other system's ability to balance availability with accountability for those with few to no assets.