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Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

173 points by Vinnl 8y ago

Vinnl 8y ago
Not quite sure what this means - is Firefox Reality going to be the default browser on the VIVE?
- metajack 8y ago
  Yes. It will be the pre-installed default browser on Vive devices.
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    I still don't understand what this means. It's like saying Firefox will be the default browser of Dell monitors. The HTC Vive is a display. Unless they're referring to HTC's software suite (Viveport I think it's called), which very few people use because it's some of the worst software I've ever seen. For example, it somehow managed to jam the entire 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands in my apartment while it was running. Not even sure how it's possible to do that by accident.
    - WhatIsDukkha 8y ago
      Can confirm the PC software is terrible and should just never be installed. I think this is actually about their freestanding arm based headsets as this is the only target Firefox Reality builds for (android probably).
    - larsberg 8y ago
      On desktop, it means that if the user chooses to install the Viveport suite, that home experience and the suite will provide Firefox Reality as the default browser. For all-in-one devices, Firefox Reality will be preinstalled and the default browser.
WhatIsDukkha 8y ago
(this announcement is most likely about mobile vr headsets, not the PC side) I'm pleased about this because - 1- Firefox Reality is actually "Servo" ie the Rust based browser Mozilla has been developing for years. edit - UGGGH this may not ship with Servo enabled :( 2- This is a stamp of approval from both Firefox and HTC that Servo is ready for consumers at least for this use case (which is very demanding low latency graphics!) 3- Actual Firefox means far higher standards of privacy and integrity then some cancerous Chromium embedded scenario. I'm concerned enough to think twice about buying anything from Vive mobile because - 1- Their Vive PC software is awful shovelware. 2- It's not clear what the OS environment around the browser would be in an HTC branded mobile headset. If it's a clean version of Android that can be hacked on and replaced then we have something. 3- WebXR/WebVR still has no useful way to actually browse the real web, there is no "HTMLTexture" to allow you to say even look at Wikipedia through a portal. As a result you are trapped in basically WebXR Demo hell...
- cpeterso 8y ago
  > 1- Firefox Reality is actually "Servo" ie the Rust based browser Mozilla has been developing for years. Firefox Reality currently uses GeckoView, Gecko repackaged in a WebView-like embeddable Android component. The Firefox Reality team is still working on experimental support for Servo: https://github.com/MozillaReality/FirefoxReality/#experimental-servo-support https://github.com/MozillaReality/FirefoxReality/#experiment...
- larsberg 8y ago
  Firefox Reality is the brand we're using for the suite of browser products across VR and AR devices. Today, Firefox Reality is available for standalone VR devices (like the HTC Vive Focus) and is a native Java application that talks to the GeckoView library, which is made up of components from the mobile version of Gecko, the Firefox web engine. Firefox Reality for desktop will similarly be based off of the Firefox Desktop product pieces. Note that there's a bunch of "Servo inside" - from small Rust components to the Quantum work including the new CSS style system to the forthcoming WebRender component. I don't have anything to announce today about a Firefox Reality-branded browser based on top of Servo.
hgq 8y ago
Expect to get ads about HTC devices on your Firefox home page soon.
- yarrel 8y ago
  Along with a deal to embed a proprietary eye-tracking service that will then be bought out by Mozilla once they realize that they've done it again.
  - hgq 8y ago
    They will publicly pretend they bought the eye-tracking service, but they will actually just hold some minority investment, like they did with Cliqz.
    - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
      Then they’ll collect all your personal data and sell it to the highest bidder to target ads at you through your web browser and they’ll build anti competitive features in and break standards so the web only works with their browser and users are stuck with it... oh wait...
      - vnw 8y ago
        It's cool if they do that, as long as they stop pretending they care about my privacy and that they fight on my side :)
loa-in-backup 8y ago
Firefox from what I gathered will be used as the de facto browser in in-VR web browsing. If you read the VIVE promotion article on VIVE homepage you'd know that they are planning a kind of VR metaverse as an interface to the games you play - instead of picking an option from a flat surface you'll "walk" into the app/game. But of course this doesn't change the facts that web is flat so any in-app or in-game web will be displayed in some fashion using the Firefox Reality engine.
- Animats 8y ago
  Second Life has browsers in-world, and they're Chrome subprocesses. These allow you to put any web page on a surface in the 3D world. Doing a "VR metaverse" is a big job. There are about a half dozen of them now, and they all have tiny user counts.
mrlala 8y ago
Why would they deal with HTC and not just Steam in general. I have had Vive since day 1. I am never touching anything HTC again. I'm happy enough with the device and technology I have- but the HTC software is horrendous and there's no place for it. I've heard just horror story after horror story of HTC customer service / repair, wanting $200 for a new controller etc. Vive Pro is a complete joke, in price. HTC hasn't done anything positive since the release of the original vive.
- amatecha 8y ago
  You might notice HTC Vive seems to be distancing themselves from Steam, including focusing pretty much entirely on their own Viveport platform. Though I'm not sure why, that seems to be the mentality behind their current direction.
  - T-A 8y ago
    A commonly voiced complaint about current VR gear is that it's too expensive for mainstream adoption. HTC doesn't have a Facebook backing it, so it can't just subsidize the hardware to build market share - unless it finds another revenue stream. The obvious candidate (see game console economics) is the complementary good [1]: VR software. Hence HTC Studios and Viveport. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_good
  - 1auralynn 8y ago
    To non-gamers, Steam looks kinda wacky - there's crazy popups, really intense graphics, nonstandard UIs, and it has to update most times it launches. It's also blocked on lots of networks - businesses, schools, etc. I personally love Steam and its craziness, but that's the main reason - HTC wants Vive to become mainstream and to capitalize on other uses for VR besides gaming.
  - 13rac1 8y ago
    HTC Vive is focusing on Viveport for the same reason Epic, Ubisoft, and Oculus have: They want to take the sales away from Steam. We are watching the same thing happening with Netflix verses every television company (CBS, HBO, etc) making their own streaming service fiefdom. Netflix and Steam beat the other companies for distribution by years and they don't like that. Re-fragmentation.
Pica_soO 8y ago
And once again the open source tortoise reaches hype-town, before the last building is a total hare-down.
tree_of_item 8y ago
I don't have a clue about VR stuff, and this is the first time I'm hearing about "Firefox Reality". Why do you need a special browser? What's different about this one?
- Brakenshire 8y ago
  A parallelizable layout engine should make it a lot easier to get the kind of framerate needed for vr. Mozilla have used this as a test-case for Servo. I’ve previously criticized them for it as an extreme niche market and a diversion from mainstream use cases, but happy to swallow my words if it goes well.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    I was indeed wondering about how niche this was. Are there any reliable usage statistics for, say, how many people currently use a VR browser daily? (And to forestall the inevitable comment, I understand the potential of VR, and have since the 1990s VR wave. What I'm wondering about is actual sustained (that is, non-novelty) use.)
    - andybak 8y ago
      It's rather chicken and egg at the moment but if you believe in the web and you think VR is an important new medium it's important that the web doesn't get left out of the party. Something has to be the connecting tissue of the multiverse and we'd better hope it's not Facebook or something equally proprietary.
      - wpietri 8y ago
        Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the theory that "VR is an important new medium" is exactly what I wanted empirical data to test. I was not asking about potential; I was asking about current sustained use.
        andybak 8y ago
ccnafr 8y ago
But, why?
- kiriakasis 8y ago
  Because both AR and VR still have the possibility of enormous growth.
  - ken 8y ago
    Mozilla as an organization these days seems to be hunting for that one trick that will let them magically become big again. I don't want a trick. I want a good web browser. From its beginning, Firefox got popular because it was just a good web browser, not because of any gimmick. If anything, it was the lack of gimmicks that made it good. Unlike previous Mozilla products, it was just the browser. I'd be curious to see an interview with their executive team. Their solutions just don't seem to align with people's problems any more. (Last year, I might have guessed they're just abandoning the desktop web browser market, but today they're the only remaining completely independent implementation, so they've lucked themselves into a position of great importance. A lot of people who never use Firefox still want it to succeed.)
    - jdlshore 8y ago
      To the best of my knowledge, Mozilla relies on Google for the vast majority of their operating budget. That is a precarious position to be in. So of course they're searching for other sources of revenue. I'm glad you want Firefox to succeed. I do too. (I'm posting this from FF!) But unless you can find a few dozen million friends to pony up actual cash for it, every year, Mozilla's going to have to keep looking for other options.
    - glenneroo 8y ago
      Why do you consider a VR browser to be a gimmick? And why is this announcement not relevant to building a "good web browser"? They want to build a good web browser for VR, as well as mobile, desktop, and any other platforms which are relevant today and hopefully tomorrow. Perhaps you are only interested in the desktop version, but it's still probably in their best interests to develop browsers for other upcoming markets. Were you also upset that they spent valuable resources building an Android version?
mmastrac 8y ago
Smart move on Mozilla's part to start working on VR. The desktop browser space has been saturated for so long, but making a bet on a new space might help them get a toehold on a whole new world. This doesn't mean they are not focused on desktop, but strategically this is a solid bed that may or may not pay off, but will be key for long-term survival. EDIT: plus having commercial sponsors for the eventual Servo-in-VR (as noted elsewhere, not shipping yet) will be key to getting Servo itself ready for production. EDIT 2: Can we get material properties on HTML elements please? I want <img>s with bump-mapping and specular highlights. :)
- sstangl 8y ago
  In particular, Firefox Reality is just a consumer of GeckoView. Working on Firefox Reality has beneficial effects on Gecko's general ability to be embedded.
  - fabrice_d 8y ago
    Embedding in other Android apps is not really what we expect in general by being embeddable. Servo for instance is easy to embed since you just need to provide it a GL context and feed it events. This is far from being the case with Gecko unfortunately. Chromium is pretty good also especially with the Ozone layer.
    - floatboth 8y ago
      From what I've heard, it's not an Android-exclusive effort, and eventually Gecko will become embeddable again on desktop too. Camino Resurrection anyone? :)
- earthscienceman 8y ago
  While you're correct in your assessment, and I hope this comes to fruition, this same paragraph could have been written about Firefox OS. That said, I'm not a detractor, I wish Firefox OS had also worked out. And I'm certainly very glad that Mozilla is still willing to approach new ideas and markets, even after getting burnt.
tln 8y ago
Cool, going to try this on my Daydream setup right now. Chrome on Daydream presents a super simplified UI. I'd love to be able to open a few tabs, move them around spatially, adjust the size, etc. There is so much potential for improving browsing experiences in VR.
- Sendotsh 8y ago
  That's what I've been wanting since VR started. I just want to be able to place browser windows around me in space, and enter input into whichever one I'm looking at. Bonus points when I can also have a VLC window somewhere, file browser, etc, but mostly just want a stable usable VR-space window manager for now.
- Fej 8y ago
  What device are you using? I'm using a Pixel 2 XL and had to sideload it because the Play Store shows it as incompatible. It is broken, though, can't type more than one letter. There's a ton of promise though. I haven't found a good VR browser yet. Somewhat considering actually working on the project, I know they're on Github but don't know if they are looking for help.
  - tln 8y ago
    Pixel 2 XL also What else have you tried?
    - Fej 8y ago
      Just that. It appears that they are not supporting Daydream View or Google Cardboard headsets at this time. Just standalone VR devices.
James_Owens_69 8y ago
Remember when FF wasn't shit? Good times. I miss my extensions that no longer work.
classics2 8y ago
Right, this from the organization that can’t manage RSS integration because it’s too hard.
bluescrn 8y ago
Is this going to be a text-free browser? Trying to display/read small text in VR really shows up the limitations of current tech.
konschubert 8y ago
I don’t know. They maybe hope they’ll be first on the next big thing which they think is VR. But who knows if VR is going to be big, who knows if it needs a browser and what keeps chrome from eating the cake anyways after Firefox has scoped out the territory. I think this is a very risky bet unless they make net money on this which they can funnel into more promising projects.
- Vinnl 8y ago
  You and I have very different definitions of risky :) Worst case, the effort of a relatively small team has been wasted, and Gecko and Servo will have received a few improvements as a result of their work. Best case, VR makes it big and Firefox is its go-to browser. Then consider the case where they're not in the VR space early. Best case, they've saved a relatively small team's effort. Worst case, VR makes it big and Firefox is as marginally relevant as it is now on mobile.
  - konschubert 8y ago
    I don’t believe that being early as a browser gives you that much of an advantage in such an unexplored space. Differences between browsers in this space will be big for a while and people will switch back and forth. Maybe the cost of this project for Mozilla is so small that it doesn’t matter, but I think it isn’t Edit: also I said that the bet itself is risky, not that it’s putting Mozilla’s existence in jeopardy
Animats 8y ago
Mozilla needs to focus on their main product. I finally "upgraded" Firefox on an old 4 GB Windows 7 machine. It's bigger, slower, and crashes every time it exits.
- samllhands 8y ago
  Hey i am using Windows 7 and Firefox as daily 'driver' here.the lastest firefox is rocking here as i can tell.

173 points by Vinnl 8y ago

Vinnl 8y ago

Not quite sure what this means - is Firefox Reality going to be the default browser on the VIVE?

metajack 8y ago
Yes. It will be the pre-installed default browser on Vive devices.
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  I still don't understand what this means. It's like saying Firefox will be the default browser of Dell monitors. The HTC Vive is a display. Unless they're referring to HTC's software suite (Viveport I think it's called), which very few people use because it's some of the worst software I've ever seen. For example, it somehow managed to jam the entire 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands in my apartment while it was running. Not even sure how it's possible to do that by accident.
  - WhatIsDukkha 8y ago
    Can confirm the PC software is terrible and should just never be installed. I think this is actually about their freestanding arm based headsets as this is the only target Firefox Reality builds for (android probably).
  - larsberg 8y ago
    On desktop, it means that if the user chooses to install the Viveport suite, that home experience and the suite will provide Firefox Reality as the default browser. For all-in-one devices, Firefox Reality will be preinstalled and the default browser.

WhatIsDukkha 8y ago

(this announcement is most likely about mobile vr headsets, not the PC side) I'm pleased about this because - 1- Firefox Reality is actually "Servo" ie the Rust based browser Mozilla has been developing for years. edit - UGGGH this may not ship with Servo enabled :( 2- This is a stamp of approval from both Firefox and HTC that Servo is ready for consumers at least for this use case (which is very demanding low latency graphics!) 3- Actual Firefox means far higher standards of privacy and integrity then some cancerous Chromium embedded scenario. I'm concerned enough to think twice about buying anything from Vive mobile because - 1- Their Vive PC software is awful shovelware. 2- It's not clear what the OS environment around the browser would be in an HTC branded mobile headset. If it's a clean version of Android that can be hacked on and replaced then we have something. 3- WebXR/WebVR still has no useful way to actually browse the real web, there is no "HTMLTexture" to allow you to say even look at Wikipedia through a portal. As a result you are trapped in basically WebXR Demo hell...

cpeterso 8y ago
> 1- Firefox Reality is actually "Servo" ie the Rust based browser Mozilla has been developing for years. Firefox Reality currently uses GeckoView, Gecko repackaged in a WebView-like embeddable Android component. The Firefox Reality team is still working on experimental support for Servo: https://github.com/MozillaReality/FirefoxReality/#experimental-servo-support https://github.com/MozillaReality/FirefoxReality/#experiment...
larsberg 8y ago
Firefox Reality is the brand we're using for the suite of browser products across VR and AR devices. Today, Firefox Reality is available for standalone VR devices (like the HTC Vive Focus) and is a native Java application that talks to the GeckoView library, which is made up of components from the mobile version of Gecko, the Firefox web engine. Firefox Reality for desktop will similarly be based off of the Firefox Desktop product pieces. Note that there's a bunch of "Servo inside" - from small Rust components to the Quantum work including the new CSS style system to the forthcoming WebRender component. I don't have anything to announce today about a Firefox Reality-branded browser based on top of Servo.

hgq 8y ago

Expect to get ads about HTC devices on your Firefox home page soon.

yarrel 8y ago
Along with a deal to embed a proprietary eye-tracking service that will then be bought out by Mozilla once they realize that they've done it again.
- hgq 8y ago
  They will publicly pretend they bought the eye-tracking service, but they will actually just hold some minority investment, like they did with Cliqz.
  - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
    Then they’ll collect all your personal data and sell it to the highest bidder to target ads at you through your web browser and they’ll build anti competitive features in and break standards so the web only works with their browser and users are stuck with it... oh wait...
    - vnw 8y ago
      It's cool if they do that, as long as they stop pretending they care about my privacy and that they fight on my side :)

loa-in-backup 8y ago

Firefox from what I gathered will be used as the de facto browser in in-VR web browsing. If you read the VIVE promotion article on VIVE homepage you'd know that they are planning a kind of VR metaverse as an interface to the games you play - instead of picking an option from a flat surface you'll "walk" into the app/game. But of course this doesn't change the facts that web is flat so any in-app or in-game web will be displayed in some fashion using the Firefox Reality engine.

Animats 8y ago
Second Life has browsers in-world, and they're Chrome subprocesses. These allow you to put any web page on a surface in the 3D world. Doing a "VR metaverse" is a big job. There are about a half dozen of them now, and they all have tiny user counts.

mrlala 8y ago

Why would they deal with HTC and not just Steam in general. I have had Vive since day 1. I am never touching anything HTC again. I'm happy enough with the device and technology I have- but the HTC software is horrendous and there's no place for it. I've heard just horror story after horror story of HTC customer service / repair, wanting $200 for a new controller etc. Vive Pro is a complete joke, in price. HTC hasn't done anything positive since the release of the original vive.

amatecha 8y ago
You might notice HTC Vive seems to be distancing themselves from Steam, including focusing pretty much entirely on their own Viveport platform. Though I'm not sure why, that seems to be the mentality behind their current direction.
- T-A 8y ago
  A commonly voiced complaint about current VR gear is that it's too expensive for mainstream adoption. HTC doesn't have a Facebook backing it, so it can't just subsidize the hardware to build market share - unless it finds another revenue stream. The obvious candidate (see game console economics) is the complementary good [1]: VR software. Hence HTC Studios and Viveport. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_good
- 1auralynn 8y ago
  To non-gamers, Steam looks kinda wacky - there's crazy popups, really intense graphics, nonstandard UIs, and it has to update most times it launches. It's also blocked on lots of networks - businesses, schools, etc. I personally love Steam and its craziness, but that's the main reason - HTC wants Vive to become mainstream and to capitalize on other uses for VR besides gaming.
- 13rac1 8y ago
  HTC Vive is focusing on Viveport for the same reason Epic, Ubisoft, and Oculus have: They want to take the sales away from Steam. We are watching the same thing happening with Netflix verses every television company (CBS, HBO, etc) making their own streaming service fiefdom. Netflix and Steam beat the other companies for distribution by years and they don't like that. Re-fragmentation.

Pica_soO 8y ago

And once again the open source tortoise reaches hype-town, before the last building is a total hare-down.

tree_of_item 8y ago

I don't have a clue about VR stuff, and this is the first time I'm hearing about "Firefox Reality". Why do you need a special browser? What's different about this one?

Brakenshire 8y ago
A parallelizable layout engine should make it a lot easier to get the kind of framerate needed for vr. Mozilla have used this as a test-case for Servo. I’ve previously criticized them for it as an extreme niche market and a diversion from mainstream use cases, but happy to swallow my words if it goes well.
- wpietri 8y ago
  I was indeed wondering about how niche this was. Are there any reliable usage statistics for, say, how many people currently use a VR browser daily? (And to forestall the inevitable comment, I understand the potential of VR, and have since the 1990s VR wave. What I'm wondering about is actual sustained (that is, non-novelty) use.)
  - andybak 8y ago
    It's rather chicken and egg at the moment but if you believe in the web and you think VR is an important new medium it's important that the web doesn't get left out of the party. Something has to be the connecting tissue of the multiverse and we'd better hope it's not Facebook or something equally proprietary.
    - wpietri 8y ago
      Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the theory that "VR is an important new medium" is exactly what I wanted empirical data to test. I was not asking about potential; I was asking about current sustained use.
      - andybak 8y ago

ccnafr 8y ago

But, why?

kiriakasis 8y ago
Because both AR and VR still have the possibility of enormous growth.
- ken 8y ago
  Mozilla as an organization these days seems to be hunting for that one trick that will let them magically become big again. I don't want a trick. I want a good web browser. From its beginning, Firefox got popular because it was just a good web browser, not because of any gimmick. If anything, it was the lack of gimmicks that made it good. Unlike previous Mozilla products, it was just the browser. I'd be curious to see an interview with their executive team. Their solutions just don't seem to align with people's problems any more. (Last year, I might have guessed they're just abandoning the desktop web browser market, but today they're the only remaining completely independent implementation, so they've lucked themselves into a position of great importance. A lot of people who never use Firefox still want it to succeed.)
  - jdlshore 8y ago
    To the best of my knowledge, Mozilla relies on Google for the vast majority of their operating budget. That is a precarious position to be in. So of course they're searching for other sources of revenue. I'm glad you want Firefox to succeed. I do too. (I'm posting this from FF!) But unless you can find a few dozen million friends to pony up actual cash for it, every year, Mozilla's going to have to keep looking for other options.
  - glenneroo 8y ago
    Why do you consider a VR browser to be a gimmick? And why is this announcement not relevant to building a "good web browser"? They want to build a good web browser for VR, as well as mobile, desktop, and any other platforms which are relevant today and hopefully tomorrow. Perhaps you are only interested in the desktop version, but it's still probably in their best interests to develop browsers for other upcoming markets. Were you also upset that they spent valuable resources building an Android version?

mmastrac 8y ago

Smart move on Mozilla's part to start working on VR. The desktop browser space has been saturated for so long, but making a bet on a new space might help them get a toehold on a whole new world. This doesn't mean they are not focused on desktop, but strategically this is a solid bed that may or may not pay off, but will be key for long-term survival. EDIT: plus having commercial sponsors for the eventual Servo-in-VR (as noted elsewhere, not shipping yet) will be key to getting Servo itself ready for production. EDIT 2: Can we get material properties on HTML elements please? I want <img>s with bump-mapping and specular highlights. :)

sstangl 8y ago
In particular, Firefox Reality is just a consumer of GeckoView. Working on Firefox Reality has beneficial effects on Gecko's general ability to be embedded.
- fabrice_d 8y ago
  Embedding in other Android apps is not really what we expect in general by being embeddable. Servo for instance is easy to embed since you just need to provide it a GL context and feed it events. This is far from being the case with Gecko unfortunately. Chromium is pretty good also especially with the Ozone layer.
  - floatboth 8y ago
    From what I've heard, it's not an Android-exclusive effort, and eventually Gecko will become embeddable again on desktop too. Camino Resurrection anyone? :)
earthscienceman 8y ago
While you're correct in your assessment, and I hope this comes to fruition, this same paragraph could have been written about Firefox OS. That said, I'm not a detractor, I wish Firefox OS had also worked out. And I'm certainly very glad that Mozilla is still willing to approach new ideas and markets, even after getting burnt.

tln 8y ago

Cool, going to try this on my Daydream setup right now. Chrome on Daydream presents a super simplified UI. I'd love to be able to open a few tabs, move them around spatially, adjust the size, etc. There is so much potential for improving browsing experiences in VR.

Sendotsh 8y ago
That's what I've been wanting since VR started. I just want to be able to place browser windows around me in space, and enter input into whichever one I'm looking at. Bonus points when I can also have a VLC window somewhere, file browser, etc, but mostly just want a stable usable VR-space window manager for now.
Fej 8y ago
What device are you using? I'm using a Pixel 2 XL and had to sideload it because the Play Store shows it as incompatible. It is broken, though, can't type more than one letter. There's a ton of promise though. I haven't found a good VR browser yet. Somewhat considering actually working on the project, I know they're on Github but don't know if they are looking for help.
- tln 8y ago
  Pixel 2 XL also What else have you tried?
  - Fej 8y ago
    Just that. It appears that they are not supporting Daydream View or Google Cardboard headsets at this time. Just standalone VR devices.

James_Owens_69 8y ago

Remember when FF wasn't shit? Good times. I miss my extensions that no longer work.

classics2 8y ago

Right, this from the organization that can’t manage RSS integration because it’s too hard.

bluescrn 8y ago

Is this going to be a text-free browser? Trying to display/read small text in VR really shows up the limitations of current tech.

konschubert 8y ago

I don’t know. They maybe hope they’ll be first on the next big thing which they think is VR. But who knows if VR is going to be big, who knows if it needs a browser and what keeps chrome from eating the cake anyways after Firefox has scoped out the territory. I think this is a very risky bet unless they make net money on this which they can funnel into more promising projects.

Vinnl 8y ago
You and I have very different definitions of risky :) Worst case, the effort of a relatively small team has been wasted, and Gecko and Servo will have received a few improvements as a result of their work. Best case, VR makes it big and Firefox is its go-to browser. Then consider the case where they're not in the VR space early. Best case, they've saved a relatively small team's effort. Worst case, VR makes it big and Firefox is as marginally relevant as it is now on mobile.
- konschubert 8y ago
  I don’t believe that being early as a browser gives you that much of an advantage in such an unexplored space. Differences between browsers in this space will be big for a while and people will switch back and forth. Maybe the cost of this project for Mozilla is so small that it doesn’t matter, but I think it isn’t Edit: also I said that the bet itself is risky, not that it’s putting Mozilla’s existence in jeopardy

Animats 8y ago

Mozilla needs to focus on their main product. I finally "upgraded" Firefox on an old 4 GB Windows 7 machine. It's bigger, slower, and crashes every time it exits.

samllhands 8y ago
Hey i am using Windows 7 and Firefox as daily 'driver' here.the lastest firefox is rocking here as i can tell.