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Having grown up and worked in the US and lived in China for the past 10 years, I think you're overreaching with your characterization of corporate culture. Chi

Having grown up and worked in the US and lived in China for the past 10 years, I think you're overreaching with your characterization of corporate culture. China, like the USA, has a wide range of companies that span the spectrum of efficiency. Try to get some customer service at China Telecom and you'll see the bottom-tier of efficiency that resembles, or is even worse, than trying to get your cable fixed with Comcast.

baybal2 8y ago
> China, like the USA, has a wide range of companies that span the spectrum of efficiency. Try to get some customer service at China Telecom and you'll see the bottom-tier of efficiency that resembles, or is even worse, than trying to get your cable fixed with Comcast. True. There are horrifically bureaucratised private companies with SOE roots, or ones ran by the "old boss" class. But in China, nobody will place them as an example to emulate, but in America, the amount of people hellbent on "running the company like a F500 multinational" is just scary, and these people _don't even realise_ that they are doing, and wanting something that is wrong.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  Are you telling me there are startups that want to run like F500 multinationals? No company has SOX compliance departments, mandatory HR trainings or audited travel expense policies because they want to, they're just there because beyond a certain point you'll find out the hard way that they're there for a reason.
  - baybal2 8y ago
    > Are you telling me there are startups that want to run like F500 multinationals? Yes. And their polar opposites are not better either. Many of those guys are claiming that they know a thing about tech industry. Some have actual tech education, maybe some low effort projects, but I meet a lot cadres that put forward statements like "Our CTO has 20 years engineering experience, we have zero reservations about our execution ability," but then it finds out that the guy ran RnD offices for 20 years, but every time he actually had to make anything he ran from one agent to another "to deal with those Chinese factories." In other words, a dude on a CTO job with zero actual manufacturing experience. In such cases I almost feel obliged to whisper to the CEO or the founder "if he can't make you anything, why do you even hire him?" I'm not speaking about our clients, but, say, "the feel of industry in general" :) When I see people coming to SZ with an aspiration of making the next Ihpone, some of them come with a crew the size of our our entire engineering consulting company (around 50 people,) but they already have a baggage of "product managers," "corporate strategist," "experience managers," and some 10 other managers with titles I never ever heard of. That way you can have startups with 10th of megabucks in funding, huge teams, and no products to sell...
HelloNurse 8y ago
A recent HN story that impressed me was about Chinese manufacturers making inexpensive airplane engine parts that turned out to be defective with cheap casting and shoddy repairs, pretending they used proper tools and materials instead. Maybe they were working "like a computer program", but they were criminals.

baybal2 8y ago

> China, like the USA, has a wide range of companies that span the spectrum of efficiency. Try to get some customer service at China Telecom and you'll see the bottom-tier of efficiency that resembles, or is even worse, than trying to get your cable fixed with Comcast. True. There are horrifically bureaucratised private companies with SOE roots, or ones ran by the "old boss" class. But in China, nobody will place them as an example to emulate, but in America, the amount of people hellbent on "running the company like a F500 multinational" is just scary, and these people _don't even realise_ that they are doing, and wanting something that is wrong.

jpatokal 8y ago
Are you telling me there are startups that want to run like F500 multinationals? No company has SOX compliance departments, mandatory HR trainings or audited travel expense policies because they want to, they're just there because beyond a certain point you'll find out the hard way that they're there for a reason.
- baybal2 8y ago
  > Are you telling me there are startups that want to run like F500 multinationals? Yes. And their polar opposites are not better either. Many of those guys are claiming that they know a thing about tech industry. Some have actual tech education, maybe some low effort projects, but I meet a lot cadres that put forward statements like "Our CTO has 20 years engineering experience, we have zero reservations about our execution ability," but then it finds out that the guy ran RnD offices for 20 years, but every time he actually had to make anything he ran from one agent to another "to deal with those Chinese factories." In other words, a dude on a CTO job with zero actual manufacturing experience. In such cases I almost feel obliged to whisper to the CEO or the founder "if he can't make you anything, why do you even hire him?" I'm not speaking about our clients, but, say, "the feel of industry in general" :) When I see people coming to SZ with an aspiration of making the next Ihpone, some of them come with a crew the size of our our entire engineering consulting company (around 50 people,) but they already have a baggage of "product managers," "corporate strategist," "experience managers," and some 10 other managers with titles I never ever heard of. That way you can have startups with 10th of megabucks in funding, huge teams, and no products to sell...

HelloNurse 8y ago

A recent HN story that impressed me was about Chinese manufacturers making inexpensive airplane engine parts that turned out to be defective with cheap casting and shoddy repairs, pretending they used proper tools and materials instead. Maybe they were working "like a computer program", but they were criminals.