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GitLab’s CEO reflects on GitHub’s move to offer free private repos

98 points by whoisnnamdi 8y ago

quickthrower2 8y ago
Atlassian Bitbucket [1] offer private repos too: > Free for small teams under 5 and priced to scale with Standard ($2/user/mo) or Premium ($5/user/mo) plans. [1] https://bitbucket.org/product https://bitbucket.org/product
- endianswap 8y ago
  As it says in TFA...
  - quickthrower2 8y ago
    The pertinent point is 5 users. That is not mentioned in “The Fine Article”
- quickthrower2 8y ago
  Geez that’s some harsh downvoting peeps.
atonse 8y ago
He's right that their value-add is the fully integrated devops cycle. That's what's been appealing to us with Gitlab (even though it is sometimes not as polished as other offerings). Having one SaaS subscription for most of your dev process needs as a startup is nice.
- Meph504 8y ago
  I can't help but wonder if they have checked out MS devops they have a really robust set of tools from end to end of a project, it's free fo up to 5 users, free private repos, etc. And considering they purchased github, I'm starting to wonder if they did it just to get a name that have more acceptance and will be migrating git hub to this same model and infrastructure but with a different face.
  - GrzegorzWidla 8y ago
    GitHub already has quite robust integrations with Azure DevOps and things will likely get even more aligned in the future.
ccostes 8y ago
> At the time, I was very disappointed to learn that BitBucket.org already offered the same. GitLab took off despite that and GitLab.com recently surpassed 10 million projects. Is it just me, or does this sentence not make sense? I don't know why this is disappointing to him, or why he would just be learning this now.
- tomglynch 8y ago
  It's crazy that they began building GitLab without knowing of Bitbucket. Talk about doing some product research before building...
  - jchw 8y ago
    My memory is pretty hazy, but I believe GitLab began as a simple Git hosting program for people to be able to run on their own servers, and it started without serious intent to build a money-making product. BitBucket Server didn't exist yet (and even today, it's just Atlassian Stash renamed, IIRC.) When they went to launch GitLab.com, they probably did more product research at that point, and that's probably where the disappointment came in. I think GitLab's approach is pretty cool, and software toward developers really ought to be developed in this manner: start with the problem, then work on the product. No point in trying to build a product for a problem you can't solve. GitLab today is certainly a better product for being heavily oriented around solving developer's problems; for example, having GitLab CI built-in and even usable for free even on private repositories on GitLab.com is incredible, and it's one of those things that are going to continue to be enticing as GitHub increases the competition.
    - sl1ck731 8y ago
      I can't imagine it will be long before Azure DevOps is integrated in some way to GitHub. They don't even have to introduce it as such...just a thinly veiled mask for job running. Or even Azure Functions doing the work. MS has the advantages with having Azure behind the scenes so it will be interesting to see what they "give" it.
  - flocial 8y ago
ddtaylor 8y ago
GitLab is awesome. There are a lot of features I use like the built in time tracking. Also, I'm not very interested in using GitHub since it was acquired by Microsoft since they have a littered history of abuse and vendor lock-in. I'm not sure how they will try to retrofit EEE onto Git, but I won't be surprised when they somehow do.
- jchw 8y ago
  I think it's time to finally give up this mindset. Past misgivings be damned, Microsoft of today really doesn't look much like Microsoft of the 90s. As far as I know, Microsoft has been supporting the development of Git for Windows. They are also apparently going to support their VFS for Git protocol on GitHub, but VFS for Git is open source and supports Windows and Mac (and apparently, will support Linux.) And they claim Git is now the source control for Windows, which is impressive if true. By all accounts, Microsoft has been supporting Git in some form for several years and appears to have only increased their stake. I still think GitLab is awesome, though. There's a whole ton of things GitLab does that GitHub does not. I will probably continue to use both, myself.
  - ddtaylor 8y ago
    > I think it's time to finally give up this mindset. Past misgivings be damned, Microsoft of today really doesn't look much like Microsoft of the 90s. I disagree. Their tactics are alive and well. Have you used Office to export a CSV file in the last few years? They have done everything they can to make it inoperable out of the box. (BOM, not escaping data, etc.) > As far as I know, Microsoft has been supporting the development of Git for Windows That's the first and second E's in EEE. Wait for the extinguish portion of their plan. I'm happy you're willing to double-down on Microsoft software, but I'm not getting anywhere near that time-bomb again.
    - jchw 8y ago
      >I disagree. Their tactics are alive and well. Have you used Office to export a CSV file in the last few years? They have done everything they can to make it inoperable out of the box. (BOM, not escaping data, etc.) I do not know what their justification is for those defaults. They could, for all I know, have good reasoning, like legacy support. It's possible, though less likely, that they simply didn't put much thought into it. I do know that the xlsx format is standardized. I've not used it myself, but I've heard it's not unreasonable (whereas docx is apparently a bit less reasonable.) And I mean, from my experience I've not had trouble opening Excel spreadsheets in LibreOffice or Google Sheets. If they broke in any way, I failed to notice. In any case it sounds like minor greivances and a pretty darn far cry from 90s Microsoft. >I'm happy you're willing to double-down on Microsoft software, but I'm not getting anywhere near that time-bomb again. Well this is incorrect. I use GitHub but I'm not doubling down. I don't use Windows except in VMs, I find it to be downright vexatious and even the new Windows 10 for Workstations is still incredibly annoying (yep, still getting Cortana SPAM by default.) I also find it suspicious when Edge is magically the default browser or my file associations to IrfanView keep getting reset to Windows Photo Viewer due to "corrupt file associations," yet those same file associations work fine if I uninstall Windows Photo Viewer. Those things are really super annoying. However, even some of the more egregious behaviors hit me as unlikely to be intentional. I am frustrated at an upsettingly similar rate by open source software and it only recently occurred to me that I would almost never attribute this to underhanded tactics. I still prefer my open source software, but I do think Microsoft is different. Time will tell.
dhdhrhdhsj 8y ago
Man, the GitLab astroturfing in HackerNews is getting annoying.
- beckler 8y ago
  Yeah, let's get some subversion astroturfing going on in here to balance it out.
gandutraveler 8y ago
I'm starting to believe that Gitlab actually has marketing team dedicated to HN. Everytime there is a Gitlab HN post you would find random unrelated comments on why they prefer Gitlab over Github.
- dewey 8y ago
  What about the simpler theory: people actually like to use the product and like to share it?
- bromuro 8y ago
  More likely just fan-boys that like competitions David vs Goliath. However, GitLab is the only project here that constantly receives such noticeable treatment. It is a good marketing team indeed!
  - pvinis 8y ago
    I wouldn't call us fanboys. I would call us devotees. Like firefox followers. We are not many, but we are devoted, and we will tell you about it, and the reasons we believe them to be superior to other products. :D
  - dsumenkovic 8y ago
    Thanks for the praise, I've just left a comment about our team which loves to communitcate with everyone here. More details above or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855469
- klohto 8y ago
  Considering that these comments have already been deleted (removed?), I think you're very much right.
- dsumenkovic 8y ago
  Hi, Community Advocate [1] at GitLab here. I am part of the team which takes care of our community and that includes the communication with users. Briefly our (my team's) goal is to respond to every question about GitLab asked online and to stay transparent [2] about evrerything. This helps us to create better documentation and processes as well as it's easier to provide feedback into GitLab. Regarding the user feedback and preferences on HN, everyone's comment is welcome and we really appreciate the words from the competitor's side. It's really interesting that many people at GitLab joins the HN threads and you probably noticed our CEO's activity as well as many other GitLabbers. [1] https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/marketing/community-advocate/ https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/marketing/community-ad... [2] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#transparency https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#transparency
ykevinator 8y ago
This feels like a race to the bottom. Gitlab was so bold to launch unlimited free private repos. Feels like github made a weak move in response to market loss. It will be interesting to see what happens when Google or Amazon start promoting their git products.
- tzfld 8y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised Gitlab being bought by one of these.
Jnr 8y ago
I like how GitHub has search on their front page while GitLab has some marketing page instead. Is it possible to search Gitlab without logging in? I used to host Gitlab for more private repos for many years but lately I have switched to Gogs because it is much simpler to maintain it and it has less bloat (and features).
- atomi 8y ago
  +1 for Gogs. It's a perfect fit for small private repos.

98 points by whoisnnamdi 8y ago

Atlassian Bitbucket [1] offer private repos too: > Free for small teams under 5 and priced to scale with Standard ($2/user/mo) or Premium ($5/user/mo) plans. [1] https://bitbucket.org/product https://bitbucket.org/product

endianswap 8y ago
As it says in TFA...
- quickthrower2 8y ago
  The pertinent point is 5 users. That is not mentioned in “The Fine Article”
quickthrower2 8y ago
Geez that’s some harsh downvoting peeps.

atonse 8y ago

He's right that their value-add is the fully integrated devops cycle. That's what's been appealing to us with Gitlab (even though it is sometimes not as polished as other offerings). Having one SaaS subscription for most of your dev process needs as a startup is nice.

Meph504 8y ago
I can't help but wonder if they have checked out MS devops they have a really robust set of tools from end to end of a project, it's free fo up to 5 users, free private repos, etc. And considering they purchased github, I'm starting to wonder if they did it just to get a name that have more acceptance and will be migrating git hub to this same model and infrastructure but with a different face.
- GrzegorzWidla 8y ago
  GitHub already has quite robust integrations with Azure DevOps and things will likely get even more aligned in the future.

ccostes 8y ago

> At the time, I was very disappointed to learn that BitBucket.org already offered the same. GitLab took off despite that and GitLab.com recently surpassed 10 million projects. Is it just me, or does this sentence not make sense? I don't know why this is disappointing to him, or why he would just be learning this now.

tomglynch 8y ago
It's crazy that they began building GitLab without knowing of Bitbucket. Talk about doing some product research before building...
- jchw 8y ago
  My memory is pretty hazy, but I believe GitLab began as a simple Git hosting program for people to be able to run on their own servers, and it started without serious intent to build a money-making product. BitBucket Server didn't exist yet (and even today, it's just Atlassian Stash renamed, IIRC.) When they went to launch GitLab.com, they probably did more product research at that point, and that's probably where the disappointment came in. I think GitLab's approach is pretty cool, and software toward developers really ought to be developed in this manner: start with the problem, then work on the product. No point in trying to build a product for a problem you can't solve. GitLab today is certainly a better product for being heavily oriented around solving developer's problems; for example, having GitLab CI built-in and even usable for free even on private repositories on GitLab.com is incredible, and it's one of those things that are going to continue to be enticing as GitHub increases the competition.
  - sl1ck731 8y ago
    I can't imagine it will be long before Azure DevOps is integrated in some way to GitHub. They don't even have to introduce it as such...just a thinly veiled mask for job running. Or even Azure Functions doing the work. MS has the advantages with having Azure behind the scenes so it will be interesting to see what they "give" it.
- flocial 8y ago

ddtaylor 8y ago

GitLab is awesome. There are a lot of features I use like the built in time tracking. Also, I'm not very interested in using GitHub since it was acquired by Microsoft since they have a littered history of abuse and vendor lock-in. I'm not sure how they will try to retrofit EEE onto Git, but I won't be surprised when they somehow do.

jchw 8y ago
I think it's time to finally give up this mindset. Past misgivings be damned, Microsoft of today really doesn't look much like Microsoft of the 90s. As far as I know, Microsoft has been supporting the development of Git for Windows. They are also apparently going to support their VFS for Git protocol on GitHub, but VFS for Git is open source and supports Windows and Mac (and apparently, will support Linux.) And they claim Git is now the source control for Windows, which is impressive if true. By all accounts, Microsoft has been supporting Git in some form for several years and appears to have only increased their stake. I still think GitLab is awesome, though. There's a whole ton of things GitLab does that GitHub does not. I will probably continue to use both, myself.
- ddtaylor 8y ago
  > I think it's time to finally give up this mindset. Past misgivings be damned, Microsoft of today really doesn't look much like Microsoft of the 90s. I disagree. Their tactics are alive and well. Have you used Office to export a CSV file in the last few years? They have done everything they can to make it inoperable out of the box. (BOM, not escaping data, etc.) > As far as I know, Microsoft has been supporting the development of Git for Windows That's the first and second E's in EEE. Wait for the extinguish portion of their plan. I'm happy you're willing to double-down on Microsoft software, but I'm not getting anywhere near that time-bomb again.
  - jchw 8y ago
    >I disagree. Their tactics are alive and well. Have you used Office to export a CSV file in the last few years? They have done everything they can to make it inoperable out of the box. (BOM, not escaping data, etc.) I do not know what their justification is for those defaults. They could, for all I know, have good reasoning, like legacy support. It's possible, though less likely, that they simply didn't put much thought into it. I do know that the xlsx format is standardized. I've not used it myself, but I've heard it's not unreasonable (whereas docx is apparently a bit less reasonable.) And I mean, from my experience I've not had trouble opening Excel spreadsheets in LibreOffice or Google Sheets. If they broke in any way, I failed to notice. In any case it sounds like minor greivances and a pretty darn far cry from 90s Microsoft. >I'm happy you're willing to double-down on Microsoft software, but I'm not getting anywhere near that time-bomb again. Well this is incorrect. I use GitHub but I'm not doubling down. I don't use Windows except in VMs, I find it to be downright vexatious and even the new Windows 10 for Workstations is still incredibly annoying (yep, still getting Cortana SPAM by default.) I also find it suspicious when Edge is magically the default browser or my file associations to IrfanView keep getting reset to Windows Photo Viewer due to "corrupt file associations," yet those same file associations work fine if I uninstall Windows Photo Viewer. Those things are really super annoying. However, even some of the more egregious behaviors hit me as unlikely to be intentional. I am frustrated at an upsettingly similar rate by open source software and it only recently occurred to me that I would almost never attribute this to underhanded tactics. I still prefer my open source software, but I do think Microsoft is different. Time will tell.

dhdhrhdhsj 8y ago

Man, the GitLab astroturfing in HackerNews is getting annoying.

beckler 8y ago
Yeah, let's get some subversion astroturfing going on in here to balance it out.

gandutraveler 8y ago

I'm starting to believe that Gitlab actually has marketing team dedicated to HN. Everytime there is a Gitlab HN post you would find random unrelated comments on why they prefer Gitlab over Github.

dewey 8y ago
What about the simpler theory: people actually like to use the product and like to share it?
bromuro 8y ago
More likely just fan-boys that like competitions David vs Goliath. However, GitLab is the only project here that constantly receives such noticeable treatment. It is a good marketing team indeed!
- pvinis 8y ago
  I wouldn't call us fanboys. I would call us devotees. Like firefox followers. We are not many, but we are devoted, and we will tell you about it, and the reasons we believe them to be superior to other products. :D
- dsumenkovic 8y ago
  Thanks for the praise, I've just left a comment about our team which loves to communitcate with everyone here. More details above or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855469
klohto 8y ago
Considering that these comments have already been deleted (removed?), I think you're very much right.
dsumenkovic 8y ago
Hi, Community Advocate [1] at GitLab here. I am part of the team which takes care of our community and that includes the communication with users. Briefly our (my team's) goal is to respond to every question about GitLab asked online and to stay transparent [2] about evrerything. This helps us to create better documentation and processes as well as it's easier to provide feedback into GitLab. Regarding the user feedback and preferences on HN, everyone's comment is welcome and we really appreciate the words from the competitor's side. It's really interesting that many people at GitLab joins the HN threads and you probably noticed our CEO's activity as well as many other GitLabbers. [1] https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/marketing/community-advocate/ https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/marketing/community-ad... [2] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#transparency https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#transparency

ykevinator 8y ago

This feels like a race to the bottom. Gitlab was so bold to launch unlimited free private repos. Feels like github made a weak move in response to market loss. It will be interesting to see what happens when Google or Amazon start promoting their git products.

tzfld 8y ago
I wouldn't be surprised Gitlab being bought by one of these.

Jnr 8y ago

I like how GitHub has search on their front page while GitLab has some marketing page instead. Is it possible to search Gitlab without logging in? I used to host Gitlab for more private repos for many years but lately I have switched to Gogs because it is much simpler to maintain it and it has less bloat (and features).

atomi 8y ago
+1 for Gogs. It's a perfect fit for small private repos.