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Developers often joke about job ads that require "5 or more years of experience" in about 10 different technologies. I once calculated the probability of a real

by tabtab 8y ago

Developers often joke about job ads that require "5 or more years of experience" in about 10 different technologies. I once calculated the probability of a real person matching such a description and came to something like 1 out 500 trillion people. Unless the job ad is published to the entire Virgo Galactic Supercluster, they won't likely get a match. There are rumors such ads are written so companies can officially reject citizens for H1B visa workers. However, Hanlon's Razor could be at play.

tenpies 8y ago
There is also the classic "need X years of experience with Y technology" but Y technology has only been in existence for <X years. I love HR departments.
- Mountain_Skies 8y ago
  Saw one last year that required enough Android experience that only the guys who were acquired by Google would be able to fulfill the requirement. It was for a mundane geeks-for-hire type company that churn out template type apps so probably didn't need anywhere near that level of experience.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    I was at an interview for a job ad that had similar illogical requirements. When it was clear I wasn't getting the job for other reasons, I pointed out their error. They got all huffy. My doing that is a bad practice people-skill-wise, but it sure felt good getting deserving fools to eat their own cat-food.
rossdavidh 8y ago
I could imagine it might sometimes be the H1B thing, but more common are hyper-precise lists of technologies needed, when they already know the candidate they want but have a legal or administrative requirement to post the job. Also, I get the impression hiring managers start with what they would like, and out of a long-bred instinct to have an opening bargaining position that's more than they actually want, they put down too many things. Of course, if no offers come in, and they don't actually have an H1B or other candidate in mind, then maybe they go back and reduce what they're asking for, which would lead directly to this article's conclusion.
toast0 8y ago
Immigration related jobs ads will have these qualities: a) a very specific list of requirements, that just happens to match a specific person. Definitely not any choices of language in the list, but possibly degree or equivalent experience if necessary. b) be posted in a newspaper and on their main jobs page, but not widely elsewhere c) ask for submissions by mail only, by a certain date B and C are more telling than A though, because a weird list of requirements could be just someone weird, but narrowly posting and requiring applications by mail are part of exactly following the rules for demonstrating lack of candidates.
- Thriptic 8y ago
  This is what happens when you over regulate hiring practices in the name of inclusion, fairness, and fighting bias. I've seen numerous issues with this in academia as well where someone will be a proven candidate who you know will excel at the job but you can't simply hire them because it's against the rules. You have to spend ages interviewing all of these unproven alternative candidates with focuses on minorities etc. If you reject all the alternative candidates arbitrarily and go with who you wanted in the first place then you risk getting slapped with a lawsuit. So instead we have to go through this huge song and dance where we write these fake job descriptions which as you say are obviously only written for one person, waste everyone's time, and flood the market with fake hiring opportunities. I've been on both sides of this process and it's very aggravating. Even worse, sometimes orgs will set up basically fake interviews where they bring people in with no intention of hiring them just to put on a show to avoid a lawsuit.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    What's an example of where the interviews are audited or inspected for "inclusion"? I've rarely heard about that. Usually if an org gets in trouble for alleged "inclusion" problems, it's because of who they actually do hire, not interview. Interview process auditing may be a side-effect of such claims, I suppose. And I would hope the inspectors study the actual job requirements and compare them to the job ad. Thus, putting bogus job requirements in the ad should be penalized. Job ads should match the actual job, not the person(s) one is trying to favor.
otreblatercero 8y ago
Maybe those ads are written so you don't feel comfortable negociating your salary because you don't "cover" the requirements.

by tabtab 8y ago

tenpies 8y ago

There is also the classic "need X years of experience with Y technology" but Y technology has only been in existence for <X years. I love HR departments.

Mountain_Skies 8y ago
Saw one last year that required enough Android experience that only the guys who were acquired by Google would be able to fulfill the requirement. It was for a mundane geeks-for-hire type company that churn out template type apps so probably didn't need anywhere near that level of experience.
- tabtab 8y ago
  I was at an interview for a job ad that had similar illogical requirements. When it was clear I wasn't getting the job for other reasons, I pointed out their error. They got all huffy. My doing that is a bad practice people-skill-wise, but it sure felt good getting deserving fools to eat their own cat-food.

rossdavidh 8y ago

I could imagine it might sometimes be the H1B thing, but more common are hyper-precise lists of technologies needed, when they already know the candidate they want but have a legal or administrative requirement to post the job. Also, I get the impression hiring managers start with what they would like, and out of a long-bred instinct to have an opening bargaining position that's more than they actually want, they put down too many things. Of course, if no offers come in, and they don't actually have an H1B or other candidate in mind, then maybe they go back and reduce what they're asking for, which would lead directly to this article's conclusion.

toast0 8y ago

Immigration related jobs ads will have these qualities: a) a very specific list of requirements, that just happens to match a specific person. Definitely not any choices of language in the list, but possibly degree or equivalent experience if necessary. b) be posted in a newspaper and on their main jobs page, but not widely elsewhere c) ask for submissions by mail only, by a certain date B and C are more telling than A though, because a weird list of requirements could be just someone weird, but narrowly posting and requiring applications by mail are part of exactly following the rules for demonstrating lack of candidates.

Thriptic 8y ago
This is what happens when you over regulate hiring practices in the name of inclusion, fairness, and fighting bias. I've seen numerous issues with this in academia as well where someone will be a proven candidate who you know will excel at the job but you can't simply hire them because it's against the rules. You have to spend ages interviewing all of these unproven alternative candidates with focuses on minorities etc. If you reject all the alternative candidates arbitrarily and go with who you wanted in the first place then you risk getting slapped with a lawsuit. So instead we have to go through this huge song and dance where we write these fake job descriptions which as you say are obviously only written for one person, waste everyone's time, and flood the market with fake hiring opportunities. I've been on both sides of this process and it's very aggravating. Even worse, sometimes orgs will set up basically fake interviews where they bring people in with no intention of hiring them just to put on a show to avoid a lawsuit.
- tabtab 8y ago
  What's an example of where the interviews are audited or inspected for "inclusion"? I've rarely heard about that. Usually if an org gets in trouble for alleged "inclusion" problems, it's because of who they actually do hire, not interview. Interview process auditing may be a side-effect of such claims, I suppose. And I would hope the inspectors study the actual job requirements and compare them to the job ad. Thus, putting bogus job requirements in the ad should be penalized. Job ads should match the actual job, not the person(s) one is trying to favor.

otreblatercero 8y ago

Maybe those ads are written so you don't feel comfortable negociating your salary because you don't "cover" the requirements.