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I wonder what happens when a normal person refuses to be scanned by these newfangled scanners? I'm going to the US soon and I don't like the body scanners.

by xutopia 16y ago

smanek 16y ago
I've refused (and I'm flying again tomorrow and plan to refuse again if asked). You get a, rather invasive, pat down. But, if everyone refuses, it will cost them enough time that they should have to stop.
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  Hopefully. I suspect instead, they'll just make the body scanners mandatory.
- jemfinch 16y ago
  Or they'll just stop letting those who decline fly at all.
- Devilboy 16y ago
  Someone on Reddit got selected for the scanner, and after getting scanned the TSA proceeded to give him the invasive gope-search too. So it sounds like you might as well 'opt out' of the scanner since it won't save you from having your genitals felt up.
afshin 16y ago
I refused last week. I got pat down pretty invasively. The TSA agent seemed rather embarrassed about it. The protocol says that when they touch private areas, they must point out that they're using the back of the hand, but being groped is being groped. If everyone refuses, I hope, it will be simply too costly to continue ... but I'm still not sure if allowing myself to be literally manhandled is any less an invasion of my privacy except insofar as there's no photographic evidence that can be stored indefinitely.
- jemfinch 16y ago
  > there's no photographic evidence that can be stored indefinitely. The machines are capable of storing the pictures, and all we have is the promise of a long abusive government agency that they are not.
  - afshin 16y ago
    Yes, I agree. Maybe I was unclear above, but what I meant to say was that not being photographed was one of the main motivations I had for consenting to being patted down, despite the discomfort.
  - tdfx 16y ago
    If TSA uses the same machines as the Department of State uses at embassies then I can speak from experience that the pictures are stored by default.
    - joshwa 16y ago
      Having looked at the TSA documents in the EPIC lawsuit, the TSA operational requirements are that the machines must be incapable of storing the images. Not that this makes me any more OK with subjecting myself (and inflicting upon others) what is essentially a strip search.
      - poet 16y ago
        The machines are capable of storing images. Straight from the mouth of Gale Rossides, the Deputy Administrator of the TSA [1]. The functionality is supposed to be disabled after an install, but such safeguards seem tenuous at best. [1] http://www.infowars.com/media/tsadoc.pdf http://www.infowars.com/media/tsadoc.pdf
- oiuytgfyhujik 16y ago
  There is a gay rights group who are planning to protest it by turning up at the airport in costume insisting on a special pat down and pretending (or not) to enjoy it very much. Sounds like a great day out - especially if you are into uniforms!
joshd 16y ago
(Cross-posted from my Reddit account) I went through SFO on the weekend and said I didn't want to go through the machine. You're made to feel pretty stigmatised, you have to stand there while the TSA officer repeatedly yells out "We got an opt-out. Male opt-out." across the hall. The pat down itself was extremely thorough but considering how much the TSA gets bagged on Reddit, the officer was incredibly professional. It didn't feel lewd or dirty. Sure, it was violating and I resented having to be put through the experience, but the guy was just doing his job and it was obvious he'd been extensively trained. All up it took about 5 minutes of my time. What worried me the most was that afterword he asked "The TSA is conducting a survey, why did you opt-out?" I replied that I didn't like my freedoms being taken away. However, thinking about this later, I realised that if in a year they release stats that say "only 1% of people opt-out, and only 5% of those people do so for medical or religious reasons" then it is going to be a hell of a lot easier for them to push for the scans to become mandatory.
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  "The TSA is conducting a survey, why did you opt-out?" With a straight face: "Because I get sexual gratification from having my genitles fondled. Your job is sort of like prostitution, but you get paid by the pimps rather than the customers." Then walk away.
cmoylan 16y ago
I flew a few days ago and opted out of the body scanner. The pat down was definitely very thorough and a little uncomfortable, but I could tell the TSA officer administering it was just as uncomfortable as I was. It held up the line for about 5 minutes because they didn't let anyone through while I was being searched. I never felt intimidated and will continue to opt out, so if that was their intention, they failed.

I wonder what happens when a normal person refuses to be scanned by these newfangled scanners? I'm going to the US soon and I don't like the body scanners.

by xutopia 16y ago

I wonder what happens when a normal person refuses to be scanned by these newfangled scanners? I'm going to the US soon and I don't like the body scanners.

smanek 16y ago

I've refused (and I'm flying again tomorrow and plan to refuse again if asked). You get a, rather invasive, pat down. But, if everyone refuses, it will cost them enough time that they should have to stop.

ojbyrne 16y ago
Hopefully. I suspect instead, they'll just make the body scanners mandatory.
jemfinch 16y ago
Or they'll just stop letting those who decline fly at all.
Devilboy 16y ago
Someone on Reddit got selected for the scanner, and after getting scanned the TSA proceeded to give him the invasive gope-search too. So it sounds like you might as well 'opt out' of the scanner since it won't save you from having your genitals felt up.

afshin 16y ago

I refused last week. I got pat down pretty invasively. The TSA agent seemed rather embarrassed about it. The protocol says that when they touch private areas, they must point out that they're using the back of the hand, but being groped is being groped. If everyone refuses, I hope, it will be simply too costly to continue ... but I'm still not sure if allowing myself to be literally manhandled is any less an invasion of my privacy except insofar as there's no photographic evidence that can be stored indefinitely.

jemfinch 16y ago
> there's no photographic evidence that can be stored indefinitely. The machines are capable of storing the pictures, and all we have is the promise of a long abusive government agency that they are not.
- afshin 16y ago
  Yes, I agree. Maybe I was unclear above, but what I meant to say was that not being photographed was one of the main motivations I had for consenting to being patted down, despite the discomfort.
- tdfx 16y ago
  If TSA uses the same machines as the Department of State uses at embassies then I can speak from experience that the pictures are stored by default.
  - joshwa 16y ago
    Having looked at the TSA documents in the EPIC lawsuit, the TSA operational requirements are that the machines must be incapable of storing the images. Not that this makes me any more OK with subjecting myself (and inflicting upon others) what is essentially a strip search.
    - poet 16y ago
      The machines are capable of storing images. Straight from the mouth of Gale Rossides, the Deputy Administrator of the TSA [1]. The functionality is supposed to be disabled after an install, but such safeguards seem tenuous at best. [1] http://www.infowars.com/media/tsadoc.pdf http://www.infowars.com/media/tsadoc.pdf
oiuytgfyhujik 16y ago
There is a gay rights group who are planning to protest it by turning up at the airport in costume insisting on a special pat down and pretending (or not) to enjoy it very much. Sounds like a great day out - especially if you are into uniforms!

joshd 16y ago

(Cross-posted from my Reddit account) I went through SFO on the weekend and said I didn't want to go through the machine. You're made to feel pretty stigmatised, you have to stand there while the TSA officer repeatedly yells out "We got an opt-out. Male opt-out." across the hall. The pat down itself was extremely thorough but considering how much the TSA gets bagged on Reddit, the officer was incredibly professional. It didn't feel lewd or dirty. Sure, it was violating and I resented having to be put through the experience, but the guy was just doing his job and it was obvious he'd been extensively trained. All up it took about 5 minutes of my time. What worried me the most was that afterword he asked "The TSA is conducting a survey, why did you opt-out?" I replied that I didn't like my freedoms being taken away. However, thinking about this later, I realised that if in a year they release stats that say "only 1% of people opt-out, and only 5% of those people do so for medical or religious reasons" then it is going to be a hell of a lot easier for them to push for the scans to become mandatory.

mike-cardwell 16y ago
"The TSA is conducting a survey, why did you opt-out?" With a straight face: "Because I get sexual gratification from having my genitles fondled. Your job is sort of like prostitution, but you get paid by the pimps rather than the customers." Then walk away.

cmoylan 16y ago

I flew a few days ago and opted out of the body scanner. The pat down was definitely very thorough and a little uncomfortable, but I could tell the TSA officer administering it was just as uncomfortable as I was. It held up the line for about 5 minutes because they didn't let anyone through while I was being searched. I never felt intimidated and will continue to opt out, so if that was their intention, they failed.