5 ms·
Like the article says, previous research has come to the same conclusion. We pay much more, and are ranked nowhere near the top for lifespan, childhood mortali
by bluetwo 8y ago
Like the article says, previous research has come to the same conclusion.
We pay much more, and are ranked nowhere near the top for lifespan, childhood mortality, and other measures.
Obamacare was a great first step. Define what basic healthcare is and form markets that encourage apples-to-apples comparison. Let the free market work.
Sucks that one party used this as a weapon to wrestle power.
Oh well.
Not going to argue here about healthcare reform, though. So if you disagree, don't expect a response.
- MichaelApproved 8y ago> Let the free market work Respectfully, enough with this free market garbage. The healthcare industry is not a free market, it can never be. It's not possible for the consumer to be educated. Even if you put emergencies aside, when an unconscious person can't start price shopping emergency rooms, you still have regular office visits that are impossible to price shop. Ask yourself when the last time you asked your physician how much a service cost. I asked my physician and they had no clue. They finally gave me an estimate of "it'll be nominal", so I accepted the procedure. Turned out to be ~$200. I'm currently disputing it and refuse to pay based on their original quote of "nominal". Imagine your at the doctor and need to get a blood test. What do you do? Start calling around local labs to ask which one has the best price? Maybe check Groupon for a discount? All this while your doctor waits to see if the price is within your budget, so they could continue the test. Pricing in the medical industry is not even opaque. It's solid black.
- kps 8y agoA free market would have patients and physicians reaching a supply/demand equilibrium, with facilitating brokers taking a small cut. In the US, patients go bankrupt and physicians go bankrupt — money flows to the parasites who set prices: administrators and insurers.
- Gibbon1 8y agoRespectfully; you believe in magic.
- ModernMech 8y ago> A free market would have patients and physicians reaching a supply/demand equilibrium And what happens when the market is not in equilibrium? It means some services are priced out of reach for some buyers. When the market is commodities like soy beans, that's okay... it means some people don't buy soy beans. When it's healthcare, it means some people don't get healthcare and they die. Not so good.
- kps 8y agoWhat you have now in the US is that the soybean eaters can't afford to buy soybeans and the soybean farmers can't afford to grow soybeans. I'm not American and I'm far from lolbertarian, but having money go straight from patients to doctors would be a vast improvent on what you folks have now. It's the same as you see in US higher education — students are charged a fortune and educators are paid peanuts.
- Gibbon1 8y ago> Respectfully, enough with this free market garbage. Kenneth Arrow pretty much proved in 1963 that 'the free market' doesn't work for healthcare. Nothing since has produced a shred of evidence that he was wrong.
- the_cat_kittles 8y agothis is such an underemphasized point, and it completely undermines dumb "free market" solutions. a lot of people in america have been fooled, plain and simple.
- hacknat 8y agoSome providers actually have policies that prohibit giving out any pricing information. There are so many reasons why healthcare isn’t close to a free market. Here are a few: 1. All medical residents receive their salaries from Medicare. 2. It is illegal not to treat people who go to the emergency room. This actually makes the whole system socialized in some ways in that there is a guaranteed way to get healthcare without having to pay for it. It’s literally the worst way to socialize medicine though (what with preventive medicine being cheaper). 3. Within the industry itself their are drug pricing cartels, lab monopolies and facility provider splits that even some hospital administrators don’t understand. You mentioned shopping around for lab results, but I think there is only one option in a lot of states. Forget single payer socialize the whole thing (it already is in the most expensive, stupid way).
- drb91 8y agoNit, that’s not socialization, that’s just right to service. You still shoulder the bill entirely yourself. The only thing that approaches socialized healthcare is free flu shots.
- mikeash 8y agoPeople who get service and can’t pay effectively have their service paid for by all the other customers. That’s basically socialized, since all the other customers basically means all of us.
- drb91 8y agoWell, they also get harrassed and get their credit destroyed. Hardly “effectively” socialized.
- JAlexoid 8y agoA foreigner comes in and racks up bills for $300k. His travel insurance pays only $50k. He leaves... and guess who pays the rest? Or a homeless person gets rolled in - they give no shit if you trash their credit rating. Honestly... I live in US, if I get hit with anything similar... I'll just pack up and go back to Europe.
- ModernMech 8y ago> They finally gave me an estimate of "it'll be nominal", so I accepted the procedure. Turned out to be ~$200. I'm currently disputing it and refuse to pay based on their original quote of "nominal". This is a case of expectations. $200 is nominal as far as medical procedures go. Based on my last couple encounters with healthcare, $200 barely gets you in the door. I paid $2000 on my last ambulance ride. My last stay was $14,000 for a couple days. That's with insurance.
- MichaelApproved 8y agoI was having an office visit getting tested for the flu, not on my way to the emergency room. The person who gave me the "nominal" quote also said my insurance would likely even cover the test. She was wrong. I spoke to the office manager and she seems to agree with my take on the situation. If you give a vague subjective word like "nominal" for a service, it's on you to hope the consumer agrees.
- JAlexoid 8y agoWhat a shitty insurance. I get full service at CityMD Urgent Care in downtown NYC with 0 insurance for $100(that included a shot, a few pills, basic tests, labs were extra).
- bluetwo 8y agoFree markets and regulations can co-exist. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The most successful markets are a careful balance of well crafted regulations. Healthcare in the US is not carefully balanced. BTW, hospitals in the US begin publishing their pricing data online this year. By law.
- MichaelApproved 8y ago> Free markets and regulations can co-exist. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Name one country on this or any other planet where this exists. Anywhere, except some bullshit theoretical textbook funded by a think-tank with obvious conflicts of interest. > BTW, hospitals in the US begin publishing their pricing data online this year. By law. More garbage. Those aren't real prices being published, they're approximations. And good luck calculating your service or trying to price shop while sick in bed. I'll edit the comment and add a source for that soon. Found it[1]. The most ridiculous part is that some would call those published prices a good start. As if continuing down the road of an "educated consumer" is the right path. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CONSUMER TO BE EDUCATED IN HEALTHCARE. Prices are just a small part of it of the impossibility. Doctors and nurses go through years of school. They go through all that because medicine is hard. Even the basic aspect of pronouncing the words is hard. If you can't pronounce the words, how can you be expected to remember them and shop around, while sick... EMS: You have a broken leg and a concussion. Which hospital do you want us to take you to? Me: can you pull over for a few minutes while I lookup some prices? Actually, my service in the area is terrible. Does this ambulance have wifi? EMS: Sure. Me: Is it free? EMS: No but you'll be happy to know the prices are published on our website. Edit: [1] https://www.newsweek.com/end-hidden-costs-january-1st-all-us-hospitals-must-publish-price-lists-all-1272328 https://www.newsweek.com/end-hidden-costs-january-1st-all-us... The prices listed are the retail prices while is not what the hospital usually charges. It's still not possible to know what price will end up on your bill. How much of a discount will you get at one hospital VS. another? Who knows...
- bluetwo 8y ago> Not going to argue here about healthcare reform, though. So if you disagree, don't expect a response.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago> Ask yourself when the last time you asked your physician how much a service cost. ummmm... last year. I always ask the doctor or dentist how much something's gonna cost. (not that I get a reliable, accurate answer, but I still ask.)
- Gibbon1 8y agoIf you want an actual change that would have an effect change the law so that if a hospitals and doctors can't just balance bill patients, make them have to take the patients insurance company to court.
- koboll 8y agoThis is literally exactly how it works currently. Hospitals and insurance companies are all suing each other constantly over a ton of different things.
- kodablah 8y ago> Obamacare was a great first step Disagree, it was a horrible first step directed at the demand instead of the supply. In fact, I couldn't think of a worse step of reducing provider-driven costs than heaping rules on the payers (insurers and their customers) to force paying into the system without equally significant rules controlling the suppliers. Obamacare has entrenched the ones charging all this money, not alleviated it.
- jdhn 8y agoCompletely agree. Someone on LinkedIn shared an article that was written by the CEO of Blue Shield of California that was basically bemoaning efforts to overturn the ACA under the guise that people would become uninsured. Never once was it mentioned how much money has been made by insurers due to the additional people who’ve signed up because of the ACA.
- bluetwo 8y ago> Not going to argue here about healthcare reform, though. So if you disagree, don't expect a response.