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If Progress(A) means taking stuff from a minority group, then sorry you don’t have the right for that either, even if your plan is to equally distribute it for

If Progress(A) means taking stuff from a minority group, then sorry you don’t have the right for that either, even if your plan is to equally distribute it for the “good of everyone”. For some people who went through the hell of communism it is the opposite of progress.

eli_gottlieb 8y ago
>If Progress(A) means taking stuff from a minority group, then sorry you don’t have the right for that either, Hold on, let me check something... "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." I rather think we do have that right. Human rights for minorities are indeed a thing, but they aren't a thing that gives you (or anyone else) a fully general right to rule over the majority, nor a fully general right to treat the government as illegitimate when it uses its constitutionally enumerated powers to go against your ideas.
- jedmeyers 8y ago
  > it uses its constitutionally enumerated powers to go against your ideas. So let me clarify your position a bit: you do support immigration law enforcement, correct? Also where did you get the idea that the majority of people in the US gets to decide the policy?
  - eli_gottlieb 8y ago
    >So let me clarify your position a bit: you do support immigration law enforcement, correct? Yes, of course. If enforcing the law as written involves doing Bad Things, the law should be changed, but if we aren't democratically deciding to change it, then it's on us what it involves. Mind, there's been plenty of support for the DREAM Act for quite a while now, so... >Also where did you get the idea that the majority of people in the US gets to decide the policy? The basic ethical grounds for representative democracy, without which the US government has no legitimacy, no matter how many pieces of paper anyone waves around.
    - jedmeyers 8y ago
      Majority rule is not “the basic ethical grounds for representative democracy”. US was set up as a constitutional republic specifically to limit the simple majority mob rule.
      - eli_gottlieb 8y ago
        >Majority rule is not “the basic ethical grounds for representative democracy”. Yes, it very much is. >US was set up as a constitutional republic specifically to limit the simple majority mob rule. The US was set up to preserve the power of the rural landowner class. It wasn't intended to be a representative democracy initially, and has only moved imperfectly towards representative democracy over time, with great struggle. Rule by a minority elite claiming the mantle of national authenticity as its exclusive possession is, ethically speaking, far less legitimate than that of plain, old-fashioned majorities.

eli_gottlieb 8y ago

>If Progress(A) means taking stuff from a minority group, then sorry you don’t have the right for that either, Hold on, let me check something... "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." I rather think we do have that right. Human rights for minorities are indeed a thing, but they aren't a thing that gives you (or anyone else) a fully general right to rule over the majority, nor a fully general right to treat the government as illegitimate when it uses its constitutionally enumerated powers to go against your ideas.

jedmeyers 8y ago
> it uses its constitutionally enumerated powers to go against your ideas. So let me clarify your position a bit: you do support immigration law enforcement, correct? Also where did you get the idea that the majority of people in the US gets to decide the policy?
- eli_gottlieb 8y ago
  >So let me clarify your position a bit: you do support immigration law enforcement, correct? Yes, of course. If enforcing the law as written involves doing Bad Things, the law should be changed, but if we aren't democratically deciding to change it, then it's on us what it involves. Mind, there's been plenty of support for the DREAM Act for quite a while now, so... >Also where did you get the idea that the majority of people in the US gets to decide the policy? The basic ethical grounds for representative democracy, without which the US government has no legitimacy, no matter how many pieces of paper anyone waves around.
  - jedmeyers 8y ago
    Majority rule is not “the basic ethical grounds for representative democracy”. US was set up as a constitutional republic specifically to limit the simple majority mob rule.
    - eli_gottlieb 8y ago
      >Majority rule is not “the basic ethical grounds for representative democracy”. Yes, it very much is. >US was set up as a constitutional republic specifically to limit the simple majority mob rule. The US was set up to preserve the power of the rural landowner class. It wasn't intended to be a representative democracy initially, and has only moved imperfectly towards representative democracy over time, with great struggle. Rule by a minority elite claiming the mantle of national authenticity as its exclusive possession is, ethically speaking, far less legitimate than that of plain, old-fashioned majorities.