4 ms·

I'll give some examples, keep in mind that individually these aren't too bad but they add up over time and wear you down. * Being asked by a doctor "where's th

by MRD85 8y ago

I'll give some examples, keep in mind that individually these aren't too bad but they add up over time and wear you down. * Being asked by a doctor "where's the mum?" as the first question when I've taken to the children to the doctor. * Getting a lot of offers for help because of an assumption of my incompetence. i.e. during kindergarten induction for my daughter, I was asked if I needed help with some of the jobs like covering books. I was the only man in the room. * Getting glared at while playing with my kids at the playground. If you're actually playing with your kids and not sitting on your phone then suddenly you'll find ALL the little kids near you wanting to play. Mums don't like adult men playing near their kids, even if it's with their own kids. * While Christmas shopping with two kids in tow I've received comments like "giving mum a day off huh?". I feel I'm doing an amazing job as a parent so the constant assumptions just do my head in.

air7 8y ago
Sounds annoying. However I feel this is a universal problem for anyone who is an anomaly. We all use generalization heuristics, and overall it severs us very well. The "price" is wrong judgement for the rare cases. However it's still a better algorithm than discarding generalizations (if that was even possible) because most things are normal, by definition. What I learn from your comments is that in your area mums usually take their kids to the doctors, single dads are viewed as more incompetent, mostly women play with kids at the playground, and men Christmas shopping with two kids are more likely to be married than single. You are the anomaly and therefore are being wrongly categorized. This is not a personal thing at all! Quite the opposite, it's a manifestation of how your peer group is perceived by the general public. I bet that people that get to know you change this perception and adapt it to you, personally.
- mncharity 8y ago
  > We all use generalization heuristics, and overall it severs us very well. The "price" is wrong judgement for the rare cases. However it's still a better algorithm than discarding generalizations (if that was even possible) because most things are normal, by definition. [...] You are the anomaly and therefore are being wrongly categorized. This is not a personal thing at all! Perhaps it might be interesting to picture instead a female engineer, repeatedly being dismissed as a receptionist. Or a black male engineer, repeatedly assumed a janitor or intruder and getting grief. And then see if you're still happy with those comments?
  - MRD85 8y ago
    Not the person you replied to but the one above him. Interestingly enough my experience with this type of judgement has made me much more aware of the challenges of other people in minority situations. I am a white male but in the world of being a primary parent to babies I'm a minority. I understand how minorities in a professional setting might feel the need to be beyond reproach.
mncharity 8y ago
> the constant assumptions just do my head in For whatever it's worth, I'll just share how I made my own peace with something somewhat similar. I think to myself something like "Aaaannnd, welcome yet again to the long fight against prejudice and discrimination. That I once thought <bemused head shake> I was somehow insulated from it burning me, that my participation in the fight was somehow optional, was the obliviousness of male white professional privilege. Thank you person/institution/life for the reminder. And the reminder that so many face so worse." Works for me. As frequency increases, that might need a different form. I wonder if some occurrences might be teachable moments for some? Leaving people better than you found them. Sometimes one can dodge prejudice with subgroup membership signalling, as people seem to do a lot of profile matching. I remember baby throw-up stains having that effect. And sometimes "unrelated" prejudices can be leveraged - when doing child care, I tended to button-downs and not T shirts, if only for potentially improving response time in an emergency, as they seem to toggle many between "how may I help you sir; yes sir" and "what'da you want bud; well, let's see". You might find professional-class signalling might alter peoples' male-threat profiling? I expect there's how-to literature about all this. Both on coping with discrimination in its various forms, and for male primary caregivers in particular.

by MRD85 8y ago

air7 8y ago

Sounds annoying. However I feel this is a universal problem for anyone who is an anomaly. We all use generalization heuristics, and overall it severs us very well. The "price" is wrong judgement for the rare cases. However it's still a better algorithm than discarding generalizations (if that was even possible) because most things are normal, by definition. What I learn from your comments is that in your area mums usually take their kids to the doctors, single dads are viewed as more incompetent, mostly women play with kids at the playground, and men Christmas shopping with two kids are more likely to be married than single. You are the anomaly and therefore are being wrongly categorized. This is not a personal thing at all! Quite the opposite, it's a manifestation of how your peer group is perceived by the general public. I bet that people that get to know you change this perception and adapt it to you, personally.

mncharity 8y ago
> We all use generalization heuristics, and overall it severs us very well. The "price" is wrong judgement for the rare cases. However it's still a better algorithm than discarding generalizations (if that was even possible) because most things are normal, by definition. [...] You are the anomaly and therefore are being wrongly categorized. This is not a personal thing at all! Perhaps it might be interesting to picture instead a female engineer, repeatedly being dismissed as a receptionist. Or a black male engineer, repeatedly assumed a janitor or intruder and getting grief. And then see if you're still happy with those comments?
- MRD85 8y ago
  Not the person you replied to but the one above him. Interestingly enough my experience with this type of judgement has made me much more aware of the challenges of other people in minority situations. I am a white male but in the world of being a primary parent to babies I'm a minority. I understand how minorities in a professional setting might feel the need to be beyond reproach.

mncharity 8y ago

> the constant assumptions just do my head in For whatever it's worth, I'll just share how I made my own peace with something somewhat similar. I think to myself something like "Aaaannnd, welcome yet again to the long fight against prejudice and discrimination. That I once thought <bemused head shake> I was somehow insulated from it burning me, that my participation in the fight was somehow optional, was the obliviousness of male white professional privilege. Thank you person/institution/life for the reminder. And the reminder that so many face so worse." Works for me. As frequency increases, that might need a different form. I wonder if some occurrences might be teachable moments for some? Leaving people better than you found them. Sometimes one can dodge prejudice with subgroup membership signalling, as people seem to do a lot of profile matching. I remember baby throw-up stains having that effect. And sometimes "unrelated" prejudices can be leveraged - when doing child care, I tended to button-downs and not T shirts, if only for potentially improving response time in an emergency, as they seem to toggle many between "how may I help you sir; yes sir" and "what'da you want bud; well, let's see". You might find professional-class signalling might alter peoples' male-threat profiling? I expect there's how-to literature about all this. Both on coping with discrimination in its various forms, and for male primary caregivers in particular.