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That's like saying "this whole programming thing just keeps on giving" every time a bug is discovered in any program. Those involved have been warning of the i

That's like saying "this whole programming thing just keeps on giving" every time a bug is discovered in any program. Those involved have been warning of the insecurity of smaller chains for a long time now, and they aren't representative of the entire ecosystem.

brokensegue 8y ago
well programming is providing lots of value to humanity at the moment so it gets a pass
kryogen1c 8y ago
> That's like saying "this whole programming thing just keeps on giving" every time a bug is discovered in any program. No it's not. Programming is a tool to create programs with. Block chain is a technological buzzword being used (and implemented) wildly inappropriately. 51% attacks are a fundamental vulnerability in decentralization. It would be like inventing programming when everyone pretends bugs don't exist at all. Bugs are inherent to the task, just like blockchains have a very narrow set of use cases, but everyone's too busy flying too close to the sun.
- albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  There are some cool things you can do with blockchains, they’re just a little over hyped. It’s pretty neat to send funds to someone without going via a 3rd party, it’s cool to run code on a global computer, it’s awesome to have digital assets that can’t be doled out on a whim by a central authority.
  - theamk 8y ago
    ... It's great when you can lose lots of money by spilling soda on your computer?* *more money than this computer's price
    - Klathmon 8y ago
      can we not do this here please? Nobody wants that, nobody is saying they want that, there are mitigations against that (like backups), and it's a stupid straw man that's not even trying to engage in a meaningful conversation on the topic.
      - root_axis 8y ago
        Nobody wants to back up their money. Just use a bank and never worry about it.
        Klathmon 8y ago
        Like how nobody wants to have their accounts frozen with no notice? Or how people don't want a private company to be able to dictate what they are allowed to buy and sell? Or how people don't want to have to be constantly vigilant to ensure their simple 16 digit number doesn't get into the wrong hands (or that the hands they are required to give it to don't misuse it) and if/when it does they quickly report it to the credit card company so they aren't on the hook for it. All money systems have tradeoffs, cryptocurrencies are just another option.
        root_axis 8y ago
        > Like how nobody wants to have their accounts frozen with no notice? This is not a concern for 99% of people. Nobody is getting their bank accounts frozen except for high profile criminals. > Or how people don't want a private company to be able to dictate what they are allowed to buy and sell Another fake problem. 99% of people can buy and sell whatever they want. There is a very very small intersection between what is legal and prohibited by the banks. Once again, this is only a use-case for criminals. > don't want to have to be constantly vigilant to ensure their simple 16 digit number doesn't get into the wrong hands Do you not see the irony in complaining about vigilance over a credit card number in a response about the work of having to back up your bank cryptocurrency private key? If your 16 digit card number is stolen just cancel the card and any fraudulent purchases will be remedied. Crpyocurrency is clearly worse in this comparison. > All money systems have tradeoffs, cryptocurrencies are just another option Cryptocurrency is not a "money system" with "trade offs", it's a hamstrung toy that facilitates some dark-market commerce and that's about it, it is otherwise demonstrably useless and certainly not an alternative for the incumbent financial system.
- Klathmon 8y ago
  You won't find any disagreement from me that there is a LOT of garbage out there using blockchains and cryptocurrency tech inappropriately. The extreme vast majority is trash, manipulative, and awful in most every way. Not to mention the charlatans and fanboys that hype it as able to do everything and anything perfectly. But the few that use it well are doing fairly well, and innovation is happening. You shouldn't loop the entire ecosystem as one big unit making terrible choices together.
  - lokedhs 8y ago
    Are they though? I'm honestly curious as to what those things could be. A lot of people talk about good uses of blockchains, but all examples I've seen are either not actually good uses, or they have some flaw that makes practical implementation impossible (or at least highly unlikely). What examples of good use of blockchains are you thinking of?
    - sgeisler 8y ago
      * Trustless time stamping to proof that you had certain information at a certain point in time without revealing it https://opentimestamps.org/ https://opentimestamps.org/ * (depending on your stance on personal liberty) censorship resistant, pseudonymous e-cash/e-gold (Bitcoin)
      - Applejinx 8y ago
        I may be failing to understand, but: If the whole concept is trustless decentralized (fill in the blank ???) profit, meaning that you can make currency or a timestamp or whatever else using blockchain, and a sufficiently large force can basically fork off of an earlier block, race ahead in secret and then take over the currency or timestamps or whatever else the blockchain's about, does this not render the replaced fork useless? As in, if it's money it doesn't count and you lost everything, if it's a timestamp it's not proof because it's not the blockchain anymore, etc? I guess this is one way to make it so raw power is the only thing that matters, expressed as 'ability to marshal computer resources on a massive scale', which costs money and so it becomes circular. Power/money gives you power/money and so on. Given enough power/money you can simply take over Bitcoin: could be happening right now. Nice :P
- tuesdayrain 8y ago
  Blockchains are just another datastructure. A poor implementation of one doesn't necessarily mean the whole idea is fundamentally useleas.
  - b_tterc_p 8y ago
    But a vast majority of them being garbage does mean the vast majority of them are garbage

brokensegue 8y ago

well programming is providing lots of value to humanity at the moment so it gets a pass

kryogen1c 8y ago

> That's like saying "this whole programming thing just keeps on giving" every time a bug is discovered in any program. No it's not. Programming is a tool to create programs with. Block chain is a technological buzzword being used (and implemented) wildly inappropriately. 51% attacks are a fundamental vulnerability in decentralization. It would be like inventing programming when everyone pretends bugs don't exist at all. Bugs are inherent to the task, just like blockchains have a very narrow set of use cases, but everyone's too busy flying too close to the sun.

albertgoeswoof 8y ago
There are some cool things you can do with blockchains, they’re just a little over hyped. It’s pretty neat to send funds to someone without going via a 3rd party, it’s cool to run code on a global computer, it’s awesome to have digital assets that can’t be doled out on a whim by a central authority.
- theamk 8y ago
  ... It's great when you can lose lots of money by spilling soda on your computer?* *more money than this computer's price
  - Klathmon 8y ago
    can we not do this here please? Nobody wants that, nobody is saying they want that, there are mitigations against that (like backups), and it's a stupid straw man that's not even trying to engage in a meaningful conversation on the topic.
    - root_axis 8y ago
      Nobody wants to back up their money. Just use a bank and never worry about it.
      - Klathmon 8y ago
        Like how nobody wants to have their accounts frozen with no notice? Or how people don't want a private company to be able to dictate what they are allowed to buy and sell? Or how people don't want to have to be constantly vigilant to ensure their simple 16 digit number doesn't get into the wrong hands (or that the hands they are required to give it to don't misuse it) and if/when it does they quickly report it to the credit card company so they aren't on the hook for it. All money systems have tradeoffs, cryptocurrencies are just another option.
        root_axis 8y ago
        > Like how nobody wants to have their accounts frozen with no notice? This is not a concern for 99% of people. Nobody is getting their bank accounts frozen except for high profile criminals. > Or how people don't want a private company to be able to dictate what they are allowed to buy and sell Another fake problem. 99% of people can buy and sell whatever they want. There is a very very small intersection between what is legal and prohibited by the banks. Once again, this is only a use-case for criminals. > don't want to have to be constantly vigilant to ensure their simple 16 digit number doesn't get into the wrong hands Do you not see the irony in complaining about vigilance over a credit card number in a response about the work of having to back up your bank cryptocurrency private key? If your 16 digit card number is stolen just cancel the card and any fraudulent purchases will be remedied. Crpyocurrency is clearly worse in this comparison. > All money systems have tradeoffs, cryptocurrencies are just another option Cryptocurrency is not a "money system" with "trade offs", it's a hamstrung toy that facilitates some dark-market commerce and that's about it, it is otherwise demonstrably useless and certainly not an alternative for the incumbent financial system.
Klathmon 8y ago
You won't find any disagreement from me that there is a LOT of garbage out there using blockchains and cryptocurrency tech inappropriately. The extreme vast majority is trash, manipulative, and awful in most every way. Not to mention the charlatans and fanboys that hype it as able to do everything and anything perfectly. But the few that use it well are doing fairly well, and innovation is happening. You shouldn't loop the entire ecosystem as one big unit making terrible choices together.
- lokedhs 8y ago
  Are they though? I'm honestly curious as to what those things could be. A lot of people talk about good uses of blockchains, but all examples I've seen are either not actually good uses, or they have some flaw that makes practical implementation impossible (or at least highly unlikely). What examples of good use of blockchains are you thinking of?
  - sgeisler 8y ago
    * Trustless time stamping to proof that you had certain information at a certain point in time without revealing it https://opentimestamps.org/ https://opentimestamps.org/ * (depending on your stance on personal liberty) censorship resistant, pseudonymous e-cash/e-gold (Bitcoin)
    - Applejinx 8y ago
      I may be failing to understand, but: If the whole concept is trustless decentralized (fill in the blank ???) profit, meaning that you can make currency or a timestamp or whatever else using blockchain, and a sufficiently large force can basically fork off of an earlier block, race ahead in secret and then take over the currency or timestamps or whatever else the blockchain's about, does this not render the replaced fork useless? As in, if it's money it doesn't count and you lost everything, if it's a timestamp it's not proof because it's not the blockchain anymore, etc? I guess this is one way to make it so raw power is the only thing that matters, expressed as 'ability to marshal computer resources on a massive scale', which costs money and so it becomes circular. Power/money gives you power/money and so on. Given enough power/money you can simply take over Bitcoin: could be happening right now. Nice :P
tuesdayrain 8y ago
Blockchains are just another datastructure. A poor implementation of one doesn't necessarily mean the whole idea is fundamentally useleas.
- b_tterc_p 8y ago
  But a vast majority of them being garbage does mean the vast majority of them are garbage