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Latest TIOBE index - Python overtakes VB for the first time ever

38 points by nevster 16y ago

nevster 16y ago
Also, Objective-C experiences a dip, C# overtakes VB for the second time and pretty much everything else in the top 10 is down except Java
chubs 16y ago
Fascinating to look at the graph - Java really is dying.
- tednaleid 16y ago
  Yep, Java is dying. Or the pie is getting bigger, or the TIOBE index methodology is flawed.
  - wriq 16y ago
    "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, Yahoo!, Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings." I'm going with flawed methodology.
    - jlgosse 16y ago
      Considering that three of the four major mobile platforms are based on Java, and most enterprise web stuff is also based on Java, I would venture as far as saying this is completely wrong.
- hartror 16y ago
  The java programmers I know are moving onto other languages that use the JVM so IMO java the language might be dying but the VM is going strong.
CoreDumpling 16y ago
I've always been somewhat skeptical of TIOBE numbers, but this time I'm utterly confused. VB is listed as "(Visual) Basic" and under the "Very Long Term History" chart it is ranked #4 in 1985. Is this referring to plain old BASIC? Additionally, there's another entry further down for VB.NET at 0.323% -- if it is added to the VB percentage, it would bump it above Python and C#.
- nevster 16y ago
  I'd say you're right. VB only came out in 1991. Then again, Google wasn't around back then either - I'm unclear how they came up with the stats for 1985.
autarch 16y ago
TIOBE is garbage (http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/04/12/tiobe-or-not-tiobe-lies-damned-lies-and-statistics/ http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/04/12/tiobe-or-not-tiobe-lies-...). I'm so tired of people accepting it uncritically.
olalonde 16y ago
Sometimes I feel like HN is really a world apart. Java/C/C++ are still top 3 according to TIOBE and yet, when do we ever hear of those on HN? Is it because most people on HN are web developers? Am I doing projection because I am myself a web developer? Otherwise, where the heck do those C/C++/Java developers hang out? I'm genuinely wondering.
- danieldk 16y ago
  I think Java just doesn't fit with the character of HNers. It is a stale, boring, simple language. As such it is mostly interesting to 9/5 programmers, not for creative people who build the companies of the future. The latter group wants 'creative' languages that do not tell you how to do things, such as LISP, Haskell, and Ruby. Maybe it's an overgeneralization, but I still think it is generally true.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Java is used in the enterprise, C/C++ is properly more embedded stuff. None of which tend to end up on hn.
- vorg 16y ago
  C and C++ were the same language last time I used them. So were Pascal, ObjectPascal, and Delphi, 3 separate languages in the top 50. And Clojure is Lisp, but Scheme isn't!
  - konad 16y ago
    C and C++ most definitely are not the same language.
tomjen3 16y ago
Interesting, but I am a lot more interested in what the hell happened to Ada. Why did that language sudden jump 15 positions up?

38 points by nevster 16y ago

Also, Objective-C experiences a dip, C# overtakes VB for the second time and pretty much everything else in the top 10 is down except Java

chubs 16y ago

Fascinating to look at the graph - Java really is dying.

tednaleid 16y ago
Yep, Java is dying. Or the pie is getting bigger, or the TIOBE index methodology is flawed.
- wriq 16y ago
  "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, Yahoo!, Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings." I'm going with flawed methodology.
  - jlgosse 16y ago
    Considering that three of the four major mobile platforms are based on Java, and most enterprise web stuff is also based on Java, I would venture as far as saying this is completely wrong.
hartror 16y ago
The java programmers I know are moving onto other languages that use the JVM so IMO java the language might be dying but the VM is going strong.

CoreDumpling 16y ago

I've always been somewhat skeptical of TIOBE numbers, but this time I'm utterly confused. VB is listed as "(Visual) Basic" and under the "Very Long Term History" chart it is ranked #4 in 1985. Is this referring to plain old BASIC? Additionally, there's another entry further down for VB.NET at 0.323% -- if it is added to the VB percentage, it would bump it above Python and C#.

nevster 16y ago
I'd say you're right. VB only came out in 1991. Then again, Google wasn't around back then either - I'm unclear how they came up with the stats for 1985.

autarch 16y ago

TIOBE is garbage (http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/04/12/tiobe-or-not-tiobe-lies-damned-lies-and-statistics/ http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/04/12/tiobe-or-not-tiobe-lies-...). I'm so tired of people accepting it uncritically.

olalonde 16y ago

Sometimes I feel like HN is really a world apart. Java/C/C++ are still top 3 according to TIOBE and yet, when do we ever hear of those on HN? Is it because most people on HN are web developers? Am I doing projection because I am myself a web developer? Otherwise, where the heck do those C/C++/Java developers hang out? I'm genuinely wondering.

danieldk 16y ago
I think Java just doesn't fit with the character of HNers. It is a stale, boring, simple language. As such it is mostly interesting to 9/5 programmers, not for creative people who build the companies of the future. The latter group wants 'creative' languages that do not tell you how to do things, such as LISP, Haskell, and Ruby. Maybe it's an overgeneralization, but I still think it is generally true.
tomjen3 16y ago
Java is used in the enterprise, C/C++ is properly more embedded stuff. None of which tend to end up on hn.
vorg 16y ago
C and C++ were the same language last time I used them. So were Pascal, ObjectPascal, and Delphi, 3 separate languages in the top 50. And Clojure is Lisp, but Scheme isn't!
- konad 16y ago
  C and C++ most definitely are not the same language.

tomjen3 16y ago

Interesting, but I am a lot more interested in what the hell happened to Ada. Why did that language sudden jump 15 positions up?