5 ms·

The subject of this teardown is the 18w PowerPort charger, not to be confused with the soon-to-ship (?) gallium nitride (GaN) 27w charger known as the PowerPort

by sisk 8y ago

The subject of this teardown is the 18w PowerPort charger, not to be confused with the soon-to-ship (?) gallium nitride (GaN) 27w charger known as the PowerPort Atom PD-1[0]. I only know of two shipping GaN chargers at the moment: the 45w RAVPower (RP-PC104)[1], and the 45w Mu One[2]. I imagine we'll see an ton of GaN chargers this year. [0]: https://www.anker.com/deals/powerport_atom https://www.anker.com/deals/powerport_atom [1]: https://www.ravpower.com/p/ravpower-45w-type-c-pd-wall-charger.html https://www.ravpower.com/p/ravpower-45w-type-c-pd-wall-charg... [2]: https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone

chx 8y ago
The Inergie 60C must be one as well, it's too small to be anything else. Also, the finsix dart is GaN but it's not USB C.
- sisk 8y ago
  Thanks for the additions. Didn't think of the Dart since it's been around for a while. That has to be one of (the?) first GaN chargers to market?
  - chx 8y ago
    That and the now defunct Zolt were the first ones, yes.
  - chx 8y ago
    I am an idiot, the Dart is not GaN. https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-sic-in-their-chargers/ https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-...
- ksec 8y ago
  Thanks, That is absolutely brilliant! I wonder why these product don't get much media coverage at all. Turns out Discovery and Distribution aren't really a solved problem at all in the world of Internet. I just wish some of these had two port though. I am starting to wonder if there will be hotels adopting USB-C as Charging standards and provides Port for it.
  - chx 8y ago
    When Innergie was running their Kickstarter, then named 55CC, they were getting some coverage in 2017. It retails now as Innergie 60C. They also sell a Magicable with it which makes the charger usable with many older non USB-C laptops but alas it seems it's only for the Innergie charger only , it's not a standard part. Lenovo has a similar USB C to older "slim tip" cable, the 03X7530, which they claim -- but so far this is unverified -- to be a standard part. It ships with their power bank, independently it seems to be unobtanium at this point. > Turns out Discovery and Distribution aren't really a solved problem at all in the world of Internet. Absolutely not, I am trying to find a shoulder bag for my new on call kit (the One Mix Yoga 2S makes it possible for me to not haul a 14" laptop for once-in-three-months-but-need-to-answer-them-immediately emergencies), the upcoming Dasung not-eReader will be a monitor for it) and it's amazing how much crap simple search finds and you need forums and reddit to find anything useful. There's no search engine for bags by dimensions, even worse, many webpages for bags do not have pocket dimensions on them (sometimes even the amount of pockets is unclear!) and I am like, why do you even have a webpage? Maxpedition is the gold standard for the latter (look at the dimensions tab of https://www.maxpedition.com/products/beefy-pocket-organizer?variant=27869193873 https://www.maxpedition.com/products/beefy-pocket-organizer?... ) but they don't have a by dimension search either. This is https://www.pacsafe.com/metrosafe-ls100-anti-theft-cross-body-bag/30400.html https://www.pacsafe.com/metrosafe-ls100-anti-theft-cross-bod... typical of a terrible web page. It touts the anti theft features but what you can pack in there is a total mystery. The photo makes it well visible there are two compartments but how big they are? You won't learn it from this page for sure. Finally, neither manufacturers nor bag reviwers will pack a bag to the gills and take a trip to the nearest airport and put the bag in a cage and show whether it fits personal item, carry on size or not. This would be, you know, useful.
  - chx 8y ago
    As for two ports, check the Maru & Masa kickstarter.
- chx 8y ago
  I am an idiot, the dart is not GaN, it's SiC. https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-sic-in-their-chargers/ https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-...
  - sisk 8y ago
    Thanks for following up (a week later—that never happens on HN). Since you're an enthusiast, it's worth mentioning that the atom pd1 is now shipping. Just a heads-up if you were interested in grabbing one.
AceJohnny2 8y ago
What does GaN change?
- tossandturn 8y ago
  Increased efficiency AND higher power density. https://www.mouser.com/applications/advancing-power-GaN/ https://www.mouser.com/applications/advancing-power-GaN/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLuiGN3lNaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLuiGN3lNaA
ksec 8y ago
We have been hearing about gallium nitride power semiconductor since 2010 / 2011, and then again in 2014/2015, Why did it take so long to come to market? Cost? ( If it is cost then there is no hope of a nickel and dime fruit company to include it by default )
- extrapickles 8y ago
  Mainly cost. Right now a GaN mosfet costs 10x more than a silicon one of similar power rating. You are starting to see them in consumer goods where they can reduce the total system cost, or get the size down in premium goods. For higher power stuff, they have to compete with silicon carbide which can handle very high temperatures, so your cooling needs are smaller. [0]: IPAW60R380CEXKSA1 (silicon) costs $1.27, IGT60R190D1SATMA1 (GaN) costs $13.
  - ksec 8y ago
    Thanks... There goes my hope of Apple having it come with iPhone. $10 BOM is A LOT.
- exmadscientist 8y ago
  Cost, and the fact that it doesn't actually buy you much. I've evaluated GaN for a couple recent designs I've been involved in and found that its benefits simply didn't justify its costs. What GaN actually does is, mainly, decrease switching losses. That means switching frequency can go up, or efficiency, or power density. These are all good things, to be sure, but the magnitude of improvement GaN brings to most designs is simply not large enough to justify the cost of the parts and the increased design attention needed to use them. (They're fussy little things.) That said, I'm bullish on GaN in the medium-term. There are some cool tricks that are infeasible or impossible without them, and they really are better in a lot of ways. It'll just take a while for them to trickle downmarket, and even still they're not going to be replacing Si FETs anytime soon. (Part of the lag in GaN adoption is simply that Si FETs have gotten really, really good.)
  - baybal2 8y ago
chargerlab 8y ago
This is Ben from ChargerLAB. We actually have the 27W GaN Anker USB-C charger in our hands for months. But my boss won't let me tear it down as it is the only one we have and there are some testings need to be done before we destroy it. We might dissemble the RAVPower 45W GaN USB-C charger next week though. I probably don't have the calibre to give a detailed explanation, but at least you guys will be able to see what it looks like inside from photos.

by sisk 8y ago

chx 8y ago

The Inergie 60C must be one as well, it's too small to be anything else. Also, the finsix dart is GaN but it's not USB C.

sisk 8y ago
Thanks for the additions. Didn't think of the Dart since it's been around for a while. That has to be one of (the?) first GaN chargers to market?
- chx 8y ago
  That and the now defunct Zolt were the first ones, yes.
- chx 8y ago
  I am an idiot, the Dart is not GaN. https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-sic-in-their-chargers/ https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-...
ksec 8y ago
Thanks, That is absolutely brilliant! I wonder why these product don't get much media coverage at all. Turns out Discovery and Distribution aren't really a solved problem at all in the world of Internet. I just wish some of these had two port though. I am starting to wonder if there will be hotels adopting USB-C as Charging standards and provides Port for it.
- chx 8y ago
  When Innergie was running their Kickstarter, then named 55CC, they were getting some coverage in 2017. It retails now as Innergie 60C. They also sell a Magicable with it which makes the charger usable with many older non USB-C laptops but alas it seems it's only for the Innergie charger only , it's not a standard part. Lenovo has a similar USB C to older "slim tip" cable, the 03X7530, which they claim -- but so far this is unverified -- to be a standard part. It ships with their power bank, independently it seems to be unobtanium at this point. > Turns out Discovery and Distribution aren't really a solved problem at all in the world of Internet. Absolutely not, I am trying to find a shoulder bag for my new on call kit (the One Mix Yoga 2S makes it possible for me to not haul a 14" laptop for once-in-three-months-but-need-to-answer-them-immediately emergencies), the upcoming Dasung not-eReader will be a monitor for it) and it's amazing how much crap simple search finds and you need forums and reddit to find anything useful. There's no search engine for bags by dimensions, even worse, many webpages for bags do not have pocket dimensions on them (sometimes even the amount of pockets is unclear!) and I am like, why do you even have a webpage? Maxpedition is the gold standard for the latter (look at the dimensions tab of https://www.maxpedition.com/products/beefy-pocket-organizer?variant=27869193873 https://www.maxpedition.com/products/beefy-pocket-organizer?... ) but they don't have a by dimension search either. This is https://www.pacsafe.com/metrosafe-ls100-anti-theft-cross-body-bag/30400.html https://www.pacsafe.com/metrosafe-ls100-anti-theft-cross-bod... typical of a terrible web page. It touts the anti theft features but what you can pack in there is a total mystery. The photo makes it well visible there are two compartments but how big they are? You won't learn it from this page for sure. Finally, neither manufacturers nor bag reviwers will pack a bag to the gills and take a trip to the nearest airport and put the bag in a cage and show whether it fits personal item, carry on size or not. This would be, you know, useful.
- chx 8y ago
  As for two ports, check the Maru & Masa kickstarter.
chx 8y ago
I am an idiot, the dart is not GaN, it's SiC. https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-sic-in-their-chargers/ https://www.pntpower.com/5-reasons-why-avogy-and-finsix-put-...
- sisk 8y ago
  Thanks for following up (a week later—that never happens on HN). Since you're an enthusiast, it's worth mentioning that the atom pd1 is now shipping. Just a heads-up if you were interested in grabbing one.

AceJohnny2 8y ago

What does GaN change?

tossandturn 8y ago
Increased efficiency AND higher power density. https://www.mouser.com/applications/advancing-power-GaN/ https://www.mouser.com/applications/advancing-power-GaN/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLuiGN3lNaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLuiGN3lNaA

ksec 8y ago

We have been hearing about gallium nitride power semiconductor since 2010 / 2011, and then again in 2014/2015, Why did it take so long to come to market? Cost? ( If it is cost then there is no hope of a nickel and dime fruit company to include it by default )

extrapickles 8y ago
Mainly cost. Right now a GaN mosfet costs 10x more than a silicon one of similar power rating. You are starting to see them in consumer goods where they can reduce the total system cost, or get the size down in premium goods. For higher power stuff, they have to compete with silicon carbide which can handle very high temperatures, so your cooling needs are smaller. [0]: IPAW60R380CEXKSA1 (silicon) costs $1.27, IGT60R190D1SATMA1 (GaN) costs $13.
- ksec 8y ago
  Thanks... There goes my hope of Apple having it come with iPhone. $10 BOM is A LOT.
exmadscientist 8y ago
Cost, and the fact that it doesn't actually buy you much. I've evaluated GaN for a couple recent designs I've been involved in and found that its benefits simply didn't justify its costs. What GaN actually does is, mainly, decrease switching losses. That means switching frequency can go up, or efficiency, or power density. These are all good things, to be sure, but the magnitude of improvement GaN brings to most designs is simply not large enough to justify the cost of the parts and the increased design attention needed to use them. (They're fussy little things.) That said, I'm bullish on GaN in the medium-term. There are some cool tricks that are infeasible or impossible without them, and they really are better in a lot of ways. It'll just take a while for them to trickle downmarket, and even still they're not going to be replacing Si FETs anytime soon. (Part of the lag in GaN adoption is simply that Si FETs have gotten really, really good.)
- baybal2 8y ago

chargerlab 8y ago

This is Ben from ChargerLAB. We actually have the 27W GaN Anker USB-C charger in our hands for months. But my boss won't let me tear it down as it is the only one we have and there are some testings need to be done before we destroy it. We might dissemble the RAVPower 45W GaN USB-C charger next week though. I probably don't have the calibre to give a detailed explanation, but at least you guys will be able to see what it looks like inside from photos.