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And property prices in London/South East become affordable again, Sterling falls benefiting inward investment, exports, and tourism. So not all bad news then! :

And property prices in London/South East become affordable again, Sterling falls benefiting inward investment, exports, and tourism. So not all bad news then! :) There's so much defeatism within the UK and anti-Brexit propaganda flying around from vested interests. It's all so tiresome. > Brexit is a self inflicted shot to the head. Money isn't the only thing in life.

Loughla 8y ago
>Money isn't the only thing in life. Disclaimer - I'm not trying to be hateful. That seems like a completely nonsense, garbage statement. Brexit is primarily about money and economics, from what I can tell on the outside looking in. So what was your purpose in writing that?
- e1ven 8y ago
  It sounds like his point is that even if there are fewer big banks, he might be able to buy/rent an apartment in more desirable areas of the city. I interpret his comment as pointing out a value to intangibles that are sometimes overlooked when viewing the country through a broad economic lens.
  - laumars 8y ago
    The people who will be hurt the most would be those who are at the bottom of the proverbial food chain to begin with. Desirable areas will still be expensive because people on high income or positions of power will still hold those positions. It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. Instead of levelling the playing field, I expect the brexit will just create an even bigger divide between the wealthy and the poor.
    - growlist 8y ago
      > It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. But doesn't mass immigration also hurt those at the bottom? It's not the well off that are facing competition for jobs, housing etc. is it?
      - pjc50 8y ago
        Every time someone tries to prove this by doing an unbiased economic investigation, it concludes that the negative effect is either nonexistent or tiny. Housing competition is fundamentally local - everyone in the world wants London property, regardless of living there. Nobody wants houses in Stoke on Trent.
        growlist 8y ago
        > Every time someone tries to prove this by doing an unbiased economic investigation, it concludes that the negative effect is either nonexistent or tiny. That's a pretty bold assertion, not what a quick google reflects
        MagnumOpus 8y ago
        Care to share the results of your quick search please?
        growlist 8y ago
        The onus is on the person that makes the bold assertion to back it up, not on me to back up my challenge. But I'm getting used to the brigading now.
        laumars 8y ago
        I agree the former poster made a claim of evidence that should be backed up, but you did the same as well. Thus you’re both just as responsible to cite a source when asked.
        Loughla 8y ago
        It's not about who is responsible. If I had evidence to back my claim up, regardless of who made the initial assertion, I'm going to. My guess is that neither can find anything with a quick google search and are just hoping that this thread dies.
- growlist 8y ago
  For many people it was about regaining control of borders and reducing immigration. Personally I'm willing to trade off being a little poorer in exchange for being a sovereign nation once again, although the current direction of travel makes it look like we will be getting Brino i.e. Brexit in name only, about which by the way I'm staggered at how blithely people are willing to discard democracy when the result doesn't go their way.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    > regaining control of borders What does this actually mean specifically? What policy changes do you want that you think you can't have within the EU? > sovereign nation once again The UK is sovereign. It's just made some international agreements to align with other countries. If you think the EU is bad for this, wait until you see things like TTIP: all of the legislative override, ability to sue the state in foreign courts etc, and none of the democracy.
    - growlist 8y ago
      A points based immigration policy would be a nice start. > The UK is sovereign. It's just made some international agreements to align with other countries. If you think the EU is bad for this, wait until you see things like TTIP: all of the legislative override, ability to sue the state in foreign courts etc, and none of the democracy. One wonders how those poor impoverished nations outside of the big trading blocs survive!
      - pjc50 8y ago
        > A points based immigration policy would be a nice start. How aware are you of the current UK visa tier system? What kinds of people do you think are currently immigrating that would not be eligible under a points based system? >One wonders how those poor impoverished nations outside of the big trading blocs survive! Generally they are poor and impoverished, yes. Or they have a deal with the EU and US. Or are tiny exceptions like Singapore.
        8y ago
- cm2187 8y ago
  From following the debate on Brexit, I think it was rather (rightly or wrongly) primarily about EU immigration.
- PunchTornado 8y ago
  no, Brexit is not about economics and it never was. Brexit is about having fewer immigrants in the country. My driving instructor was very honest with me, even if I was a foreigner. He said 50% of his students are foreigners. But he still voted for Brexit even if he knows it will make him worse off financially. He just wants fewer immigrants in the country.
  - dijit 8y ago
    I grew up in a predominantly "brown people" part of the country, I use "brown people" because there were Pakistani's, Indians and other peoples from the crown colonies. It's worth noting that, we as a country fail to integrate those people. It's not their fault. It's worth double-noting, that those people are not the people we're removing ourselves from. We're actually removing ourselves from those who are culturally similar enough to integrate independently. Immigration is /going/ to happen, it's a net positive for the country, in fact it's required to sustain the country. You've just ensured that it's the "brown people" who get imported. -- Please bear in mind, I have no ill-will to anyone from those countries, but when people argue against immigration it's almost always because of the polish (which was hugely self-inflicted) or "brown people". The majority of leavers I know don't expect this outcome, they think it'll be a net decline in all immigration (including those from India, Pakistan etc;)
    - growlist 8y ago
      > it's required to sustain the country because? If it's because we aren't fertile enough, or our education system isn't good enough, or we aren't paying enough for certain jobs, why not address this? I'm interested to know whether you think there should be any upper limit to the population of the UK: 100m? 500m? more?
      - dijit 8y ago
        Because we have an aging population, and pensions are the single largest government expense. (more than double the NHS, which is also heavily burdened by our aging populaton)
thebooktocome 8y ago
Yeah! English passports will be blue again, like God intended.
- jayalpha 8y ago
  "God knew why he put the island monkeys on an island, but he did not expect them to build ships" German saying.
NicoJuicy 8y ago
I'll add another quote, only the sun shines for free ( Belgian quote) And even then we put a price on it. Even leaving the EU alone, results in the UK setting up their own GPS alternative. That's a huge cost to bear alone
- growlist 8y ago
  > UK setting up their own GPS alternative The only reason this is possible is due to UK leadership in the area, so it's actually a brilliant opportunity for the UK to remain at the leading edge.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    And I thought they had to, because they weren't allowed to have the military part of Galileo. Which makes the UK the only country without access to high precision GPS. They had no success negotiation access to Galileo, so they are forced door a Homebrew alternative. America is the leader with GPS, last time I checked. To be honest, a lot of your comments lack realism and objective references. I'm 100% sure you live in the UK
    - growlist 8y ago
      Having done a lot of the work here there is considerable expertise in the UK, thus it will be far cheaper for the UK to go it alone than would otherwise be the case. 'SSTL was selected to supply the navigational payloads for the first 14 Galileo Full Operational Capability satellites, in partnership with prime contractor OHB System AG of Germany, in January 2010. In 2012, the OHB-SSTL partnership was awarded a second contract to supply a further 8 spacecraft for the programme and earlier this year the Batch 3 contract was again awarded to the OHB-SSTL partnership.' Source: https://www.sstl.co.uk/media-hub/latest-news/2017/sstl-celebrates-galileo-navigation-payload-order https://www.sstl.co.uk/media-hub/latest-news/2017/sstl-celeb... > To be honest, a lot of your comments lack realism and objective references. I'm 100% sure you live in the UK :)
      - 8y ago
JAlexoid 8y ago
If money isn't the only thing in life... Then why are you pointing out London's house prices? Surely you can buy a house near Derry or Cardiff.

Loughla 8y ago

>Money isn't the only thing in life. Disclaimer - I'm not trying to be hateful. That seems like a completely nonsense, garbage statement. Brexit is primarily about money and economics, from what I can tell on the outside looking in. So what was your purpose in writing that?

e1ven 8y ago
It sounds like his point is that even if there are fewer big banks, he might be able to buy/rent an apartment in more desirable areas of the city. I interpret his comment as pointing out a value to intangibles that are sometimes overlooked when viewing the country through a broad economic lens.
- laumars 8y ago
  The people who will be hurt the most would be those who are at the bottom of the proverbial food chain to begin with. Desirable areas will still be expensive because people on high income or positions of power will still hold those positions. It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. Instead of levelling the playing field, I expect the brexit will just create an even bigger divide between the wealthy and the poor.
  - growlist 8y ago
    > It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. But doesn't mass immigration also hurt those at the bottom? It's not the well off that are facing competition for jobs, housing etc. is it?
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Every time someone tries to prove this by doing an unbiased economic investigation, it concludes that the negative effect is either nonexistent or tiny. Housing competition is fundamentally local - everyone in the world wants London property, regardless of living there. Nobody wants houses in Stoke on Trent.
      - growlist 8y ago
        > Every time someone tries to prove this by doing an unbiased economic investigation, it concludes that the negative effect is either nonexistent or tiny. That's a pretty bold assertion, not what a quick google reflects
        MagnumOpus 8y ago
        Care to share the results of your quick search please?
        growlist 8y ago
        The onus is on the person that makes the bold assertion to back it up, not on me to back up my challenge. But I'm getting used to the brigading now.
        laumars 8y ago
        I agree the former poster made a claim of evidence that should be backed up, but you did the same as well. Thus you’re both just as responsible to cite a source when asked.
        Loughla 8y ago
        It's not about who is responsible. If I had evidence to back my claim up, regardless of who made the initial assertion, I'm going to. My guess is that neither can find anything with a quick google search and are just hoping that this thread dies.
growlist 8y ago
For many people it was about regaining control of borders and reducing immigration. Personally I'm willing to trade off being a little poorer in exchange for being a sovereign nation once again, although the current direction of travel makes it look like we will be getting Brino i.e. Brexit in name only, about which by the way I'm staggered at how blithely people are willing to discard democracy when the result doesn't go their way.
- pjc50 8y ago
  > regaining control of borders What does this actually mean specifically? What policy changes do you want that you think you can't have within the EU? > sovereign nation once again The UK is sovereign. It's just made some international agreements to align with other countries. If you think the EU is bad for this, wait until you see things like TTIP: all of the legislative override, ability to sue the state in foreign courts etc, and none of the democracy.
  - growlist 8y ago
    A points based immigration policy would be a nice start. > The UK is sovereign. It's just made some international agreements to align with other countries. If you think the EU is bad for this, wait until you see things like TTIP: all of the legislative override, ability to sue the state in foreign courts etc, and none of the democracy. One wonders how those poor impoverished nations outside of the big trading blocs survive!
    - pjc50 8y ago
      > A points based immigration policy would be a nice start. How aware are you of the current UK visa tier system? What kinds of people do you think are currently immigrating that would not be eligible under a points based system? >One wonders how those poor impoverished nations outside of the big trading blocs survive! Generally they are poor and impoverished, yes. Or they have a deal with the EU and US. Or are tiny exceptions like Singapore.
      - 8y ago
cm2187 8y ago
From following the debate on Brexit, I think it was rather (rightly or wrongly) primarily about EU immigration.
PunchTornado 8y ago
no, Brexit is not about economics and it never was. Brexit is about having fewer immigrants in the country. My driving instructor was very honest with me, even if I was a foreigner. He said 50% of his students are foreigners. But he still voted for Brexit even if he knows it will make him worse off financially. He just wants fewer immigrants in the country.
- dijit 8y ago
  I grew up in a predominantly "brown people" part of the country, I use "brown people" because there were Pakistani's, Indians and other peoples from the crown colonies. It's worth noting that, we as a country fail to integrate those people. It's not their fault. It's worth double-noting, that those people are not the people we're removing ourselves from. We're actually removing ourselves from those who are culturally similar enough to integrate independently. Immigration is /going/ to happen, it's a net positive for the country, in fact it's required to sustain the country. You've just ensured that it's the "brown people" who get imported. -- Please bear in mind, I have no ill-will to anyone from those countries, but when people argue against immigration it's almost always because of the polish (which was hugely self-inflicted) or "brown people". The majority of leavers I know don't expect this outcome, they think it'll be a net decline in all immigration (including those from India, Pakistan etc;)
  - growlist 8y ago
    > it's required to sustain the country because? If it's because we aren't fertile enough, or our education system isn't good enough, or we aren't paying enough for certain jobs, why not address this? I'm interested to know whether you think there should be any upper limit to the population of the UK: 100m? 500m? more?
    - dijit 8y ago
      Because we have an aging population, and pensions are the single largest government expense. (more than double the NHS, which is also heavily burdened by our aging populaton)

thebooktocome 8y ago

Yeah! English passports will be blue again, like God intended.

jayalpha 8y ago
"God knew why he put the island monkeys on an island, but he did not expect them to build ships" German saying.

NicoJuicy 8y ago

I'll add another quote, only the sun shines for free ( Belgian quote) And even then we put a price on it. Even leaving the EU alone, results in the UK setting up their own GPS alternative. That's a huge cost to bear alone

growlist 8y ago
> UK setting up their own GPS alternative The only reason this is possible is due to UK leadership in the area, so it's actually a brilliant opportunity for the UK to remain at the leading edge.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  And I thought they had to, because they weren't allowed to have the military part of Galileo. Which makes the UK the only country without access to high precision GPS. They had no success negotiation access to Galileo, so they are forced door a Homebrew alternative. America is the leader with GPS, last time I checked. To be honest, a lot of your comments lack realism and objective references. I'm 100% sure you live in the UK
  - growlist 8y ago
    Having done a lot of the work here there is considerable expertise in the UK, thus it will be far cheaper for the UK to go it alone than would otherwise be the case. 'SSTL was selected to supply the navigational payloads for the first 14 Galileo Full Operational Capability satellites, in partnership with prime contractor OHB System AG of Germany, in January 2010. In 2012, the OHB-SSTL partnership was awarded a second contract to supply a further 8 spacecraft for the programme and earlier this year the Batch 3 contract was again awarded to the OHB-SSTL partnership.' Source: https://www.sstl.co.uk/media-hub/latest-news/2017/sstl-celebrates-galileo-navigation-payload-order https://www.sstl.co.uk/media-hub/latest-news/2017/sstl-celeb... > To be honest, a lot of your comments lack realism and objective references. I'm 100% sure you live in the UK :)
    - 8y ago

JAlexoid 8y ago

If money isn't the only thing in life... Then why are you pointing out London's house prices? Surely you can buy a house near Derry or Cardiff.