9 ms·

To clarify, this is not for mobile devices, for those who want to compare it to the A12x Bionic.

solotronics 8y ago
This ARM server seems like a cloud compute type device to me.
simonh 8y ago
Furthermore it's a 64 core design, so aimed at massively parallelized workloads and high bandwidth applications, which is why they bang on about it's impressive set of interfaces. Not surprising for a company that is mainly a telecoms operation and only incidentally makes phones.
- srcmap 8y ago
  I love to the TDP # when 64 cores are running 2.6G. Also like to know the L1, L2, L3 #. It is hard for any system company to sell CPU. Apple is only for their own use. I believe the Samsung's AP is for their own use also.
- Mikeb85 8y ago
  > only incidentally makes phones They're the number 2 phone maker in the world...
k_bx 8y ago
...except that A12x Bionic is itself comparable to desktop CPUs
- hajile 8y ago
  Hardly. It is closer to Intel U series processors which are much slower than their desktop counterparts both in peak performance (desktops clock higher) and in sustained performance (desktops dissipate heat better). It is additionally slower in mult-core workloads where desktops have access to 30+ cores (none of them "little") and over 20x as much RAM (without even considering multi-socket systems with up to 3 orders of magnitude more RAM). Most people don't need the extra power a desktop offers, but the performance advantage over mobile systems is enormous.
  - skellera 8y ago
    Pretty sure they were comparing it to an i3/i5, not 30+ core servers. I don’t think anyone is making that comparison.
    - StillBored 8y ago
      Considering both intel an amd are selling "desktop" single socket machines with >16 cores, I'm not sure where you got the idea he was talking about servers. TR is now at 32 cores, 64 threads so definitely >30 cores and classified as a desktop. It might be more useful to argue "workstation" but I think his point remains, people calling their 5W 8 core part "desktop" class are referring to the "laptop without a battery" class of devices that exist in the low end space and don't take advantage of the capabilities of the desktop form factor.
      - saberience 8y ago
        It absolutely is comparable to desktop processors. The latest A12 bionic is more powerful than the average desktop CPU in use across the world. That's not saying it's better than the BEST desktop CPUs, but then, 99.99% of people don't have a 16 core Threadripper or whatever. The point is, Apple's mobile chips have reached a point where they are absolutely desktop class processors and most normal users wouldn't notice a thing if you replaced their laptop or Desktop CPU with them. This is because most normal users use their home computer for web browsing, photos, music, and Netflix. For example, the A12 bionic is absolutely more powerful than my 2015 Macbook Pro and my PC which I built in 2014. You might not like this reality, but unless you're a "power user", this processor is desktop class. End of story.
        StillBored 8y ago
        Ok, so we are moving the goalposts from what you can currently buy as a desktop machine, to what you bought as a desktop machine 5 years ago, which likely wasn't even top of the line. Then because you can run a web browser on it that makes it desktop class? Please that argument doesn't hold an ounce of anything. For that matter the processor in the original iphone was desktop class because it was capable of surfing the web better than the Pentium II's common in desktop machines in 2000. Which is why tons of people just bought ipads and stopped upgrading their desktops. I never made an argument that you couldn't replace a desktop with a phone/tablet/whatever, that wasn't what this was about. It was about claiming that apple's products were performance competitive with (current) desktop class machines. Which for some use cases they probably are, for others like heavy gaming, engineering work, or basically most of what people actually have desktop machines for these days (as opposed to laptops which is probably a better comparison) its not really a comparison outside of some great marketing. Of course this is the usual apple crap, I've been hearing it since the PPC in the mac was a "supercomputer".
- rubatuga 8y ago
  I think it would be better to say it is comparable to laptop cpus, not desktop
  - k_bx 8y ago
    How so, if iPhone XS is faster than iMac Pro on Speedometer 2.0? https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449
    - opencl 8y ago
      Running a Javascript benchmark and not even specifying which browser was used is not a great way to compare CPUs. It's also entirely single threaded. Geekbench for example puts the A12 about 15% above the 8650U in single threaded performance and 9% below it in multithreaded performance. I would say that is pretty close to U-series performance. https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2064 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2064 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/55 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/55
      - k_bx 8y ago
        You are shifting a point of conversation. The point is, they are comparable and should be compared. Single-threaded is an important comparable point.
        opencl 8y ago
        But if you're talking about desktop vs laptop performance, single thread performance is very similar and the only large difference is multithreading where desktop chips are something like 2-4x faster. If somebody is saying that it's more similar to laptop chips than desktop chips, the only reasonable interpretation of that is talking about multithreading performance. Sure it's 'comparable' to the iMac Pro if the comparison you want to make is that it is 1/4 as fast.

This ARM server seems like a cloud compute type device to me.

Furthermore it's a 64 core design, so aimed at massively parallelized workloads and high bandwidth applications, which is why they bang on about it's impressive set of interfaces. Not surprising for a company that is mainly a telecoms operation and only incidentally makes phones.

srcmap 8y ago
I love to the TDP # when 64 cores are running 2.6G. Also like to know the L1, L2, L3 #. It is hard for any system company to sell CPU. Apple is only for their own use. I believe the Samsung's AP is for their own use also.
Mikeb85 8y ago
> only incidentally makes phones They're the number 2 phone maker in the world...

k_bx 8y ago

...except that A12x Bionic is itself comparable to desktop CPUs

hajile 8y ago
Hardly. It is closer to Intel U series processors which are much slower than their desktop counterparts both in peak performance (desktops clock higher) and in sustained performance (desktops dissipate heat better). It is additionally slower in mult-core workloads where desktops have access to 30+ cores (none of them "little") and over 20x as much RAM (without even considering multi-socket systems with up to 3 orders of magnitude more RAM). Most people don't need the extra power a desktop offers, but the performance advantage over mobile systems is enormous.
- skellera 8y ago
  Pretty sure they were comparing it to an i3/i5, not 30+ core servers. I don’t think anyone is making that comparison.
  - StillBored 8y ago
    Considering both intel an amd are selling "desktop" single socket machines with >16 cores, I'm not sure where you got the idea he was talking about servers. TR is now at 32 cores, 64 threads so definitely >30 cores and classified as a desktop. It might be more useful to argue "workstation" but I think his point remains, people calling their 5W 8 core part "desktop" class are referring to the "laptop without a battery" class of devices that exist in the low end space and don't take advantage of the capabilities of the desktop form factor.
    - saberience 8y ago
      It absolutely is comparable to desktop processors. The latest A12 bionic is more powerful than the average desktop CPU in use across the world. That's not saying it's better than the BEST desktop CPUs, but then, 99.99% of people don't have a 16 core Threadripper or whatever. The point is, Apple's mobile chips have reached a point where they are absolutely desktop class processors and most normal users wouldn't notice a thing if you replaced their laptop or Desktop CPU with them. This is because most normal users use their home computer for web browsing, photos, music, and Netflix. For example, the A12 bionic is absolutely more powerful than my 2015 Macbook Pro and my PC which I built in 2014. You might not like this reality, but unless you're a "power user", this processor is desktop class. End of story.
      - StillBored 8y ago
        Ok, so we are moving the goalposts from what you can currently buy as a desktop machine, to what you bought as a desktop machine 5 years ago, which likely wasn't even top of the line. Then because you can run a web browser on it that makes it desktop class? Please that argument doesn't hold an ounce of anything. For that matter the processor in the original iphone was desktop class because it was capable of surfing the web better than the Pentium II's common in desktop machines in 2000. Which is why tons of people just bought ipads and stopped upgrading their desktops. I never made an argument that you couldn't replace a desktop with a phone/tablet/whatever, that wasn't what this was about. It was about claiming that apple's products were performance competitive with (current) desktop class machines. Which for some use cases they probably are, for others like heavy gaming, engineering work, or basically most of what people actually have desktop machines for these days (as opposed to laptops which is probably a better comparison) its not really a comparison outside of some great marketing. Of course this is the usual apple crap, I've been hearing it since the PPC in the mac was a "supercomputer".
rubatuga 8y ago
I think it would be better to say it is comparable to laptop cpus, not desktop
- k_bx 8y ago
  How so, if iPhone XS is faster than iMac Pro on Speedometer 2.0? https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449
  - opencl 8y ago
    Running a Javascript benchmark and not even specifying which browser was used is not a great way to compare CPUs. It's also entirely single threaded. Geekbench for example puts the A12 about 15% above the 8650U in single threaded performance and 9% below it in multithreaded performance. I would say that is pretty close to U-series performance. https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2064 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2064 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/55 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/55
    - k_bx 8y ago
      You are shifting a point of conversation. The point is, they are comparable and should be compared. Single-threaded is an important comparable point.
      - opencl 8y ago
        But if you're talking about desktop vs laptop performance, single thread performance is very similar and the only large difference is multithreading where desktop chips are something like 2-4x faster. If somebody is saying that it's more similar to laptop chips than desktop chips, the only reasonable interpretation of that is talking about multithreading performance. Sure it's 'comparable' to the iMac Pro if the comparison you want to make is that it is 1/4 as fast.