4 ms·

Why hint at it at all then? Without details it won't satisfy the curious nor help fix whatever problems there might be. As someone who still works for Mozilla o

by dao- 8y ago

Why hint at it at all then? Without details it won't satisfy the curious nor help fix whatever problems there might be. As someone who still works for Mozilla out of conviction, this feels like an unnecessary low blow.

codezero 8y ago
I can’t speak for steve, but having been in a similar position, hinting at it signals to peers that if they are feeling similar things, they aren’t alone. It’s easy for a lot of toxic culture to go unspoken, and to be gaslighted into thinking things are great, a post like this helps reinforce that stuff (yes vague) is not great and maybe it will lead more folks within Mozilla to pull off the rose colored glasses. Basically: it’s not for the general reader, but a specific subset of them, if I were to take a guess.
- dao- 8y ago
  Working for Mozilla, I feel I should be able to make sense of these hints, but I can't. I have no clue what issues or missteps were deal-breakers for Steve, apart from the compensation issue. Any organization of the size will have /some/ problems, and I fail to see the usefulness of signaling that's so vague that anybody can interpret it in any way they want.
  - codezero 8y ago
    Fair, then the alternative interpretation could be that he wanted to vent :)
  - ohithereyou 8y ago
    Maybe you should ask someone in your management chain why Steve was punished for expressing his concerns, thereby ensuring you wouldn't have heard about them internally at Mozilla.
deskamess 8y ago
I have no problem with hinting at it. If someone inside Mozilla whom Steve normally does not deal with is concerned and as curious, and wants to know the problem(s) AND fix it, they will give Steve an opportunity to chat (not necessarily asking him back). If they are not interested in fixing or listening then it will be a typical exit interview.
steveklabnik 8y ago
I tried to stick purely to facts. I don't want this to be taken as some sort of low blow. Maybe email me with some specifics that you think are bad and I can edit the post?
- angersock 8y ago
  Why not just post "Hey, looking for new work!" instead of kinda waggling your eyebrows at Mozilla's mistreatment?
sbarre 8y ago
You talk as if you are _owed_ these explanations. You are not. I read the post as an explanation of his decision, with as much information as he was comfortable sharing. And since it's his post, his job and his _choice_ then that's all we get.
- dao- 8y ago
  I don't want to and can't prevent Steve from blogging about whatever he wants. But I want him to know that the vague hints feels sour and not particularly professional.
geofft 8y ago
I suspect you might be able to get more info over a non-public channel. For me as an outsider, seeing this is helpful to put it into context (and evaluate what sort of failure this is and how this impacts my future trust of Rust / Mozilla / Steve / etc.) but it's certainly not something that's my place to fix. And I understand that many people are unhappy with their management for what sounds like broadly similar reasons, and this isn't a statement that Mozilla is uniquely bad.

by dao- 8y ago

codezero 8y ago

I can’t speak for steve, but having been in a similar position, hinting at it signals to peers that if they are feeling similar things, they aren’t alone. It’s easy for a lot of toxic culture to go unspoken, and to be gaslighted into thinking things are great, a post like this helps reinforce that stuff (yes vague) is not great and maybe it will lead more folks within Mozilla to pull off the rose colored glasses. Basically: it’s not for the general reader, but a specific subset of them, if I were to take a guess.

dao- 8y ago
Working for Mozilla, I feel I should be able to make sense of these hints, but I can't. I have no clue what issues or missteps were deal-breakers for Steve, apart from the compensation issue. Any organization of the size will have /some/ problems, and I fail to see the usefulness of signaling that's so vague that anybody can interpret it in any way they want.
- codezero 8y ago
  Fair, then the alternative interpretation could be that he wanted to vent :)
- ohithereyou 8y ago
  Maybe you should ask someone in your management chain why Steve was punished for expressing his concerns, thereby ensuring you wouldn't have heard about them internally at Mozilla.

deskamess 8y ago

I have no problem with hinting at it. If someone inside Mozilla whom Steve normally does not deal with is concerned and as curious, and wants to know the problem(s) AND fix it, they will give Steve an opportunity to chat (not necessarily asking him back). If they are not interested in fixing or listening then it will be a typical exit interview.

steveklabnik 8y ago

I tried to stick purely to facts. I don't want this to be taken as some sort of low blow. Maybe email me with some specifics that you think are bad and I can edit the post?

angersock 8y ago
Why not just post "Hey, looking for new work!" instead of kinda waggling your eyebrows at Mozilla's mistreatment?

sbarre 8y ago

You talk as if you are _owed_ these explanations. You are not. I read the post as an explanation of his decision, with as much information as he was comfortable sharing. And since it's his post, his job and his _choice_ then that's all we get.

dao- 8y ago
I don't want to and can't prevent Steve from blogging about whatever he wants. But I want him to know that the vague hints feels sour and not particularly professional.

geofft 8y ago

I suspect you might be able to get more info over a non-public channel. For me as an outsider, seeing this is helpful to put it into context (and evaluate what sort of failure this is and how this impacts my future trust of Rust / Mozilla / Steve / etc.) but it's certainly not something that's my place to fix. And I understand that many people are unhappy with their management for what sounds like broadly similar reasons, and this isn't a statement that Mozilla is uniquely bad.