8 ms·

> Does it really matter? Is alcohol safe? Are most medications safe? Yeah, it does. It matters a hell of a lot that alcohol isn't safe, and there are a whole b

by cirgue 8y ago

> Does it really matter? Is alcohol safe? Are most medications safe? Yeah, it does. It matters a hell of a lot that alcohol isn't safe, and there are a whole bunch of very well-known problems associated with using it regularly. Same for most medications. Many aren't super safe, and there is a fair bit of research and information dissemination required to make sure doctors and patients know the costs and benefits. When we fail at doing that, it causes a lot of harm to a lot of people. You should be able to make your own call, and that means knowing. The really creepy thing about this conversation is that there is a shitload of money to be made by concealing the hazards of marijuana use, just as there is for alcohol and cigarettes.

dvtrn 8y ago
there are a whole bunch of very well-known problems associated with using it regularly. Are you at all inclined to share sources of this? After reading this long article posted that essentially says "we don't have enough evidence, there's not enough studies being done", someone saying there are well-known problems has me wanting to read more and not just take their word for it.
- cirgue 8y ago
  I was referring to alcohol, not marijuana.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    oop. I entirely misread your comment.
- kolbe 8y ago
  This isn't a long term health effect per se, but it is a health issue. >A study by the Highway Loss Data Institute in June of last year finds that states that legalized marijuana saw insurance claims for auto accidents increase about 3% over the general national trend for the time. An updated study by the same group finds 6% according to insurance claims, and 5.2% according to police reports. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/marijuana-an-update/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/marijuana-an-update/
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Alex3917 8y ago
> Many aren't super safe, and there is a fair bit of research and information dissemination required to make sure doctors and patients know the costs and benefits. Most patients/doctors don't really care if what they're taking is safe or not. The vast majority of Americans don't even know what the active ingredient in Tylenol is.
- Puer 8y ago
  The vast majority of Americans don't know/care what the active ingredient in Tylenol is because its effects have been extensively studied and tested and there's strong evidence consuming it over long periods of time has minimal to no harmful health effects. The same cannot be said of marijuana.
  - mikestew 8y ago
    Read the sibling comment. Smoke all the cannabis you want, too much THC hasn’t killed anyone yet. The same cannot be said for acetaminophen, and it is in a lot of stuff that might be taken along with Tylenol, so people should care.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 8y ago
    As another commentor mentioned, Tylenol isn’t the best example here: acetaminophen is fairly dangerous and it’s not at all clear that it should be as easily available as it is.
- Zigurd 8y ago
  They should be more careful about Tylenol. Paracetamol, aka acetaminophen is the number 1 cause of liver failure in the US. I was shocked to learn that considering how much damage drinking causes. But you don't see many article pointing out what sure looks like a big public health problem. I have the impression I see a lot more articles about crisis PR based on the Tylenol poisonings.
bmj 8y ago
Also, let's not forget our history: at various points, both cigarettes and alcohol were pitched as being healthy for the users. That is basically where we are now with marijuana. It is entirely possible that marijuana has significant health benefits, but, per the article, we should probably run some serious studies to actually find out.
- philamonster 8y ago
  "1920s: Cyclists would smoke cigarettes while riding to reportedly ‘open the lungs.’" https://www.bicycling.com/health-nutrition/a20040926/timeline-a-history-of-tour-de-france-nutrition/ https://www.bicycling.com/health-nutrition/a20040926/timelin...
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  I haven't heard anyone claim anything about marijuana being healthy, just not harmful enough to cause it to be illegal, and definitely not worthy of prison.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    It's often said in HN threads, particularly about pain relief.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      I wouldn’t equate a statement that something helps with pain relief to be equivalent to that something being healthy. Healthy to me means something that everyone can do to maintain or improve their body’s functionality, such as eating the right foods with the right nutrients in the right amount, or excercise.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        You need to read the threads. People are saying cannabis is risk free, that it's healthy, that there are no possible problems linked to cannabis.
josefresco 8y ago
> shitload of money to be made by concealing the hazards of marijuana us You forget that there's been almost a century of lying about the "hazards" of "marijuana" while simultaneously concealing the hazards of other "legal" substances to protect corporate profits and throw people of color in jail.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- lujer78 8y ago
  You lost me at the racist bs.
  - TheBeardKing 8y ago
    Adam Ruins Everything - The Sinister Reason Weed is Illegal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlqsdezhhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlqsdezhhk
  - throwaway2016a 8y ago
    I hate to jump into this topic and I'll try not to take sides but... There is actually pretty strong evidence that is actually was to put people of color in jail (at least initially). At the very least enough plausible evidence to show that throwing around "bs" like that might be misguided. https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ > "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
    - josefresco 8y ago
      You beat me to the quote! Thanks for contributing. Let's also not forget the name itself "marijuana" was chosen to stoke racist fears of Mexicans and African Americans.
TheBeardKing 8y ago
IMO, all that matters is that we can safely put cannabis in the "use in moderation" category along with alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, ibuprofen, and loads of possible carcinogens the jury is still out on. Unless prescribed by a doctor, the only thing you should safely inhale is fresh air, and people generally know that. I hate that the legalization discussion is twisting into "well how safe is it?" If you're really concerned, don't use it unless medically necessary, or take your chances on other drugs which have plenty of known side effects. Just because it can be abused, or may not be safe in heavy dosages, is no reason to jail someone. Pertaining to regulations, I see no reason to extend beyond the current recommendations for alcohol - use in moderation, don't use pregnant, don't drive while impaired, etc.
chumali 8y ago
I'm not convinced that more academic information will benefit anyone other than the most fastidious individuals (a minority unlikely to ever participate in recreational use). The majority of use is recreational and rarely entails the kind of detailed cost benefit analysis you imply. Reading the disclaimers on modern medicines usually leaves me feeling more confused (not helped by the fact they usually list every side-effect under the sun, often mentioning opposite effects such weight gain and weight loss together). For the typical user, the logic is usually that marijuana enhances their mood or creativity or coping ability, and that its adverse effects are relatively benign (based on informal/anecdotal knowledge from its millennia of use as a recreational substance). Decisions are also made at the margin, meaning the user rarely considers the impact beyond the immediate costs and benefits (a strong argument for taxation). What would be useful to the majority of users is research in to how to mitigate the harmful effects to consumption (e.g. through alternatives to smoking) and through clear standards so they know what they are getting, the strength, duration, etc.

by cirgue 8y ago

dvtrn 8y ago

there are a whole bunch of very well-known problems associated with using it regularly. Are you at all inclined to share sources of this? After reading this long article posted that essentially says "we don't have enough evidence, there's not enough studies being done", someone saying there are well-known problems has me wanting to read more and not just take their word for it.

cirgue 8y ago
I was referring to alcohol, not marijuana.
- dvtrn 8y ago
  oop. I entirely misread your comment.
kolbe 8y ago
This isn't a long term health effect per se, but it is a health issue. >A study by the Highway Loss Data Institute in June of last year finds that states that legalized marijuana saw insurance claims for auto accidents increase about 3% over the general national trend for the time. An updated study by the same group finds 6% according to insurance claims, and 5.2% according to police reports. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/marijuana-an-update/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/marijuana-an-update/
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Alex3917 8y ago

> Many aren't super safe, and there is a fair bit of research and information dissemination required to make sure doctors and patients know the costs and benefits. Most patients/doctors don't really care if what they're taking is safe or not. The vast majority of Americans don't even know what the active ingredient in Tylenol is.

Puer 8y ago
The vast majority of Americans don't know/care what the active ingredient in Tylenol is because its effects have been extensively studied and tested and there's strong evidence consuming it over long periods of time has minimal to no harmful health effects. The same cannot be said of marijuana.
- mikestew 8y ago
  Read the sibling comment. Smoke all the cannabis you want, too much THC hasn’t killed anyone yet. The same cannot be said for acetaminophen, and it is in a lot of stuff that might be taken along with Tylenol, so people should care.
- fiddlerwoaroof 8y ago
  As another commentor mentioned, Tylenol isn’t the best example here: acetaminophen is fairly dangerous and it’s not at all clear that it should be as easily available as it is.
Zigurd 8y ago
They should be more careful about Tylenol. Paracetamol, aka acetaminophen is the number 1 cause of liver failure in the US. I was shocked to learn that considering how much damage drinking causes. But you don't see many article pointing out what sure looks like a big public health problem. I have the impression I see a lot more articles about crisis PR based on the Tylenol poisonings.

bmj 8y ago

Also, let's not forget our history: at various points, both cigarettes and alcohol were pitched as being healthy for the users. That is basically where we are now with marijuana. It is entirely possible that marijuana has significant health benefits, but, per the article, we should probably run some serious studies to actually find out.

philamonster 8y ago
"1920s: Cyclists would smoke cigarettes while riding to reportedly ‘open the lungs.’" https://www.bicycling.com/health-nutrition/a20040926/timeline-a-history-of-tour-de-france-nutrition/ https://www.bicycling.com/health-nutrition/a20040926/timelin...
lotsofpulp 8y ago
I haven't heard anyone claim anything about marijuana being healthy, just not harmful enough to cause it to be illegal, and definitely not worthy of prison.
- DanBC 8y ago
  It's often said in HN threads, particularly about pain relief.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    I wouldn’t equate a statement that something helps with pain relief to be equivalent to that something being healthy. Healthy to me means something that everyone can do to maintain or improve their body’s functionality, such as eating the right foods with the right nutrients in the right amount, or excercise.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      You need to read the threads. People are saying cannabis is risk free, that it's healthy, that there are no possible problems linked to cannabis.

josefresco 8y ago

> shitload of money to be made by concealing the hazards of marijuana us You forget that there's been almost a century of lying about the "hazards" of "marijuana" while simultaneously concealing the hazards of other "legal" substances to protect corporate profits and throw people of color in jail.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
lujer78 8y ago
You lost me at the racist bs.
- TheBeardKing 8y ago
  Adam Ruins Everything - The Sinister Reason Weed is Illegal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlqsdezhhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlqsdezhhk
- throwaway2016a 8y ago
  I hate to jump into this topic and I'll try not to take sides but... There is actually pretty strong evidence that is actually was to put people of color in jail (at least initially). At the very least enough plausible evidence to show that throwing around "bs" like that might be misguided. https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ > "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
  - josefresco 8y ago
    You beat me to the quote! Thanks for contributing. Let's also not forget the name itself "marijuana" was chosen to stoke racist fears of Mexicans and African Americans.

TheBeardKing 8y ago

IMO, all that matters is that we can safely put cannabis in the "use in moderation" category along with alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, ibuprofen, and loads of possible carcinogens the jury is still out on. Unless prescribed by a doctor, the only thing you should safely inhale is fresh air, and people generally know that. I hate that the legalization discussion is twisting into "well how safe is it?" If you're really concerned, don't use it unless medically necessary, or take your chances on other drugs which have plenty of known side effects. Just because it can be abused, or may not be safe in heavy dosages, is no reason to jail someone. Pertaining to regulations, I see no reason to extend beyond the current recommendations for alcohol - use in moderation, don't use pregnant, don't drive while impaired, etc.

chumali 8y ago

I'm not convinced that more academic information will benefit anyone other than the most fastidious individuals (a minority unlikely to ever participate in recreational use). The majority of use is recreational and rarely entails the kind of detailed cost benefit analysis you imply. Reading the disclaimers on modern medicines usually leaves me feeling more confused (not helped by the fact they usually list every side-effect under the sun, often mentioning opposite effects such weight gain and weight loss together). For the typical user, the logic is usually that marijuana enhances their mood or creativity or coping ability, and that its adverse effects are relatively benign (based on informal/anecdotal knowledge from its millennia of use as a recreational substance). Decisions are also made at the margin, meaning the user rarely considers the impact beyond the immediate costs and benefits (a strong argument for taxation). What would be useful to the majority of users is research in to how to mitigate the harmful effects to consumption (e.g. through alternatives to smoking) and through clear standards so they know what they are getting, the strength, duration, etc.