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to an extent that it matters, yeah. Sure, I put 87 octane in our SUV and 89 in the audi, but yeah for the most part gas is gas, unless something is wrong. Get

to an extent that it matters, yeah. Sure, I put 87 octane in our SUV and 89 in the audi, but yeah for the most part gas is gas, unless something is wrong. Getting 2 random batteries to have less than 10% variance among them is going to be a lot harder (especially when battery health changes a lot depending on how they are treated. Users running them to near empty in cold weather is going to shorten the life a lot faster than the guy who only runs it to 50% before swapping out every time), and I have a feeling that the amount of "problem" batteries will be much higher than the amount of times i've ever had "problem gas" (which is basically 0 times so far).

throwaway5752 8y ago
I am assuming in a hypothetical battery swap world batteries would be rigorously tested before replacement. How hard do you think it would be (sincerely)? For the gasoline analogy, there are lots of ways to achieve an octane rating but I suspect most people only use the "do I hear engine knock" test. Similarly, I would be fine of a guarantee of if I have 300 mi of electric range (whether it's 300, 310, or 320) under normal driving conditions for a battery swap, as a trade off for convenience.
- Klathmon 8y ago
  I really think it would be a lot harder than testing gasoline. For starters, with gas and other things like it, there is a supply chain which is pretty tight. If one supplier starts giving bad gas, you can blacklist them and move on. With batteries you'd have to test them after every single use, because you don't know what the last user has done to them. Then they need to be physically inspected, because a puncture or deep gouge or crack or something could cause big issues. Then their actual capacity needs to be tested some how. I'll admit that I've been outside of the battery ecosystem for a while, but years ago it wasn't all that easy to "spot check" a random battery to find it's health and capacity. Most devices would gain that knowledge about a battery over a few charge cycles. You need to make sure you know it off the bat, and you can't be wrong or I'll lose faith in the company and the tech. Then throw in the complication of different sizes, different shapes, different technologies, different requirements (this isn't just the "gas" part of fuel, it's also the "gas tank", so one size will never fit all), and now you are maintaining huge banks of different kinds of batteries all while charging them to the right amount without degrading them, and checking that users didn't run them in below freezing to almost 0 percent which would reduce the lifetime and aren't damaging them in any way which would be very unsafe. In an ideal world, it sounds like a great idea, but I just don't trust that it can be pulled off without making the user's life worse than if they didn't do it.
  - throwaway5752 8y ago
    A couple of things: when I think about it, I implicitly think about it as a vendor specific thing. Like Tesla supercharger stations. Agree that battery standards across makers likely impossible. Second, I think the major upside is removing a large potential liability from each vehicle - as hybrid vehicles are entering "old used car" ages/mileages, all your points about assessing the health of the battery apply to 2ary buyers and ability for people to monetize their old vehicles. Bringing it back around to the topic, I don't know that we can wait on solid state and this represents a work around while smarter people that I can figure that out.
TomMarius 8y ago
Side note: is that a typo or do you really have 87 octane gasoline in the USA? Because it's 95 and 98 in the EU.
- howard941 8y ago
  They're possibly different measures, RON vs MON. The wiki article has more including a photo of an offending US gasoline pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
- Klathmon 8y ago
  yes, but we use a different method of measuring than you do. IIRC ours is the average of 2 different methods (it normally shows as R+M/2 on our pumps), whereas I believe the EU uses only the one that tends to be a lot higher (RON I think) Most gas stations around me have 87, 89, and 91, and sometimes 93. I believe your octane numbers will be on average like 6 higher than ours for the same gas.

throwaway5752 8y ago

I am assuming in a hypothetical battery swap world batteries would be rigorously tested before replacement. How hard do you think it would be (sincerely)? For the gasoline analogy, there are lots of ways to achieve an octane rating but I suspect most people only use the "do I hear engine knock" test. Similarly, I would be fine of a guarantee of if I have 300 mi of electric range (whether it's 300, 310, or 320) under normal driving conditions for a battery swap, as a trade off for convenience.

Klathmon 8y ago
I really think it would be a lot harder than testing gasoline. For starters, with gas and other things like it, there is a supply chain which is pretty tight. If one supplier starts giving bad gas, you can blacklist them and move on. With batteries you'd have to test them after every single use, because you don't know what the last user has done to them. Then they need to be physically inspected, because a puncture or deep gouge or crack or something could cause big issues. Then their actual capacity needs to be tested some how. I'll admit that I've been outside of the battery ecosystem for a while, but years ago it wasn't all that easy to "spot check" a random battery to find it's health and capacity. Most devices would gain that knowledge about a battery over a few charge cycles. You need to make sure you know it off the bat, and you can't be wrong or I'll lose faith in the company and the tech. Then throw in the complication of different sizes, different shapes, different technologies, different requirements (this isn't just the "gas" part of fuel, it's also the "gas tank", so one size will never fit all), and now you are maintaining huge banks of different kinds of batteries all while charging them to the right amount without degrading them, and checking that users didn't run them in below freezing to almost 0 percent which would reduce the lifetime and aren't damaging them in any way which would be very unsafe. In an ideal world, it sounds like a great idea, but I just don't trust that it can be pulled off without making the user's life worse than if they didn't do it.
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  A couple of things: when I think about it, I implicitly think about it as a vendor specific thing. Like Tesla supercharger stations. Agree that battery standards across makers likely impossible. Second, I think the major upside is removing a large potential liability from each vehicle - as hybrid vehicles are entering "old used car" ages/mileages, all your points about assessing the health of the battery apply to 2ary buyers and ability for people to monetize their old vehicles. Bringing it back around to the topic, I don't know that we can wait on solid state and this represents a work around while smarter people that I can figure that out.

TomMarius 8y ago

Side note: is that a typo or do you really have 87 octane gasoline in the USA? Because it's 95 and 98 in the EU.

howard941 8y ago
They're possibly different measures, RON vs MON. The wiki article has more including a photo of an offending US gasoline pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Klathmon 8y ago
yes, but we use a different method of measuring than you do. IIRC ours is the average of 2 different methods (it normally shows as R+M/2 on our pumps), whereas I believe the EU uses only the one that tends to be a lot higher (RON I think) Most gas stations around me have 87, 89, and 91, and sometimes 93. I believe your octane numbers will be on average like 6 higher than ours for the same gas.