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>He’s thirty-eight, fit, has no plans for children, Well there you go. Jamie fell for the "career and consumerism" meme and now he realizes something critical

>He’s thirty-eight, fit, has no plans for children, Well there you go. Jamie fell for the "career and consumerism" meme and now he realizes something critical is missing. How much drinking and Netflix and vacationing can you do before you realize that you're becoming a genetic dead end? We're meant to feel bad when we're not accomplishing our biological imperatives.

justaguyhere 8y ago
We're meant to feel bad when we're not accomplishing our biological imperatives. Maybe. I have decided not to have children. While I can't predict the future, as of now, I think this is the right decision for me. What exactly is the point of bringing another human to this planet? We have messed up this planet to the point of no return (almost), opportunities are dwindling by the day, there are crowds everywhere fighting for meager resources... Does having kids suddenly make one happy? I see so many parents stressed all the time, simply trying to provide for their kids. How do you explain that?
- sifoobar 8y ago
  You're not going to save the planet by not having kids, I know that much. And maybe that's exactly what they bring here, enough new perspectives to get through our issues? It's not about being happy, happy comes and happy goes; it's about doing something meaningful with your life, because it's the only thing that is going to work long term.
  - justaguyhere 8y ago
    I didn't mean I want to save the planet, I just meant, why bring another life into this miserable planet knowingly and intentionally? it's about doing something meaningful with your life This is what I don't understand. Kudos to those who do something meaningful with their life - but why should I do it too? What if I am perfectly happy watching Netflix and sleeping 14 hours a day?
    - sifoobar 8y ago
      You're forgetting that everyone who came to the same conclusion as I did had already been where you are, we all walk more or less the same path. I'm not saying everyone is the same, far from it; there wouldn't be any need to keep billions of us around if we were. But life doesn't waste opportunities for evolution, and there's no point in having billions of people watching Netflix forever. It will find a way to get you out of your comfort zone, cooperating or kicking and screaming.
- turc1656 8y ago
  I think people almost always confuse happiness with fulfillment. Fulfillment is something much deeper than happiness. I can watch an uplifting movie and be happy because that's a temporary emotion and state of mind. And I can, just as easily, go from happy to angry if someone were to rear end me on the way home from the movie theater from seeing that movie. Parents aren't "happier". At least not by my estimation. But they do seem to be more fulfilled and seem to consider their lives to have a deeper meaning once they have children and become responsible for the safety, care, and development of another human being that relies on them for essentially everything. This is the implicit reason it is done. It's not just the physical (sexual) imperative. And regardless of the status of the planet, if the species is to continue, we at least need to reproduce at a rate approximating replacement. It could be lower - and then we would actually slowly depopulate the planet. But society does need to have birth rates that replace the existing people, or come close to it.
- purplethinking 8y ago
  Good on you. I'm a fairly new parent and from the perspective of quality of life, things are just worse now. I still love my child intensely and get so much enjoyment out of him, but overall I'd just be fooling myself if I said life was overall "better". At the same time I know for sure that if I didn't have the chance to have kids I'd probably become depressed due to my biological urge to have them. If you don't have that urge or it's smaller than for most people, consider yourself lucky. Based on all the parents I've interacted with, even if they don't admit this to themselves, they are probably in the same situation. They love their kids and interacting with them, but they are stressed out, have no time for themselves or their hobbies, and basically have two full time jobs for at least 18 years. In order to deal with that the only thing you can do is succumb to Stockholm's syndrome.
- zxcvvcxz 8y ago
  >We have messed up this planet to the point of no return (almost), opportunities are dwindling by the day, there are crowds everywhere fighting for meager resources... Jesus Christ, only someone in a developed country brainwashed by liberal propaganda could believe this. Try going somewhere poor and dirty with far less opportunity, and see if people think this way. I swear there must be something in our goddamn water. >Does having kids suddenly make one happy? I see so many parents stressed all the time, simply trying to provide for their kids. How do you explain that? Probably because they are physically unhealthy. Developed worlds are physically unhealthy, I can't think of any better explanation. I see families with more kids and less money all over the world who are way happier (and technically speaking, more successful from an evolutionary standpoint). Sure having kids is a stressor but so is everything meaningful that requires human activity. The difference is that healthy humans seek it out and derive long term happiness (not pleasure or euphoria) from it. And they can handle it sustainably. Sentiments like these really make me believe more and more that there is some kind of dysgenic sickness in the West.
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
I dunno, it sounds like a good, stable and healthy life - there is nothing wrong with stability. There's millions, if not billions of people that struggle to survive, for who a life like that is unimaginable bliss. Yes it's boring, predictable, probably unfulfilling but there's a long way down to go. In the US for example, people with such a lifestyle could find themselves suddenly plummeted in debt and doubt if e.g. they become ill or have an accident.
Buldak 8y ago
I suppose nothing could be more "default," necessarily, than reproducing.
netsharc 8y ago
I feel like "Get a job, get married, have kids" meme is also just that, a meme. Of course it's a meme supported by biology/genetics, but why is that the path to happiness? On the other hand, we learn to be happy with what we have, according to these 2 authors (who happened to have TED talks): https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfcro5iM5vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfcro5iM5vw

justaguyhere 8y ago

We're meant to feel bad when we're not accomplishing our biological imperatives. Maybe. I have decided not to have children. While I can't predict the future, as of now, I think this is the right decision for me. What exactly is the point of bringing another human to this planet? We have messed up this planet to the point of no return (almost), opportunities are dwindling by the day, there are crowds everywhere fighting for meager resources... Does having kids suddenly make one happy? I see so many parents stressed all the time, simply trying to provide for their kids. How do you explain that?

sifoobar 8y ago
You're not going to save the planet by not having kids, I know that much. And maybe that's exactly what they bring here, enough new perspectives to get through our issues? It's not about being happy, happy comes and happy goes; it's about doing something meaningful with your life, because it's the only thing that is going to work long term.
- justaguyhere 8y ago
  I didn't mean I want to save the planet, I just meant, why bring another life into this miserable planet knowingly and intentionally? it's about doing something meaningful with your life This is what I don't understand. Kudos to those who do something meaningful with their life - but why should I do it too? What if I am perfectly happy watching Netflix and sleeping 14 hours a day?
  - sifoobar 8y ago
    You're forgetting that everyone who came to the same conclusion as I did had already been where you are, we all walk more or less the same path. I'm not saying everyone is the same, far from it; there wouldn't be any need to keep billions of us around if we were. But life doesn't waste opportunities for evolution, and there's no point in having billions of people watching Netflix forever. It will find a way to get you out of your comfort zone, cooperating or kicking and screaming.
turc1656 8y ago
I think people almost always confuse happiness with fulfillment. Fulfillment is something much deeper than happiness. I can watch an uplifting movie and be happy because that's a temporary emotion and state of mind. And I can, just as easily, go from happy to angry if someone were to rear end me on the way home from the movie theater from seeing that movie. Parents aren't "happier". At least not by my estimation. But they do seem to be more fulfilled and seem to consider their lives to have a deeper meaning once they have children and become responsible for the safety, care, and development of another human being that relies on them for essentially everything. This is the implicit reason it is done. It's not just the physical (sexual) imperative. And regardless of the status of the planet, if the species is to continue, we at least need to reproduce at a rate approximating replacement. It could be lower - and then we would actually slowly depopulate the planet. But society does need to have birth rates that replace the existing people, or come close to it.
purplethinking 8y ago
Good on you. I'm a fairly new parent and from the perspective of quality of life, things are just worse now. I still love my child intensely and get so much enjoyment out of him, but overall I'd just be fooling myself if I said life was overall "better". At the same time I know for sure that if I didn't have the chance to have kids I'd probably become depressed due to my biological urge to have them. If you don't have that urge or it's smaller than for most people, consider yourself lucky. Based on all the parents I've interacted with, even if they don't admit this to themselves, they are probably in the same situation. They love their kids and interacting with them, but they are stressed out, have no time for themselves or their hobbies, and basically have two full time jobs for at least 18 years. In order to deal with that the only thing you can do is succumb to Stockholm's syndrome.
zxcvvcxz 8y ago
>We have messed up this planet to the point of no return (almost), opportunities are dwindling by the day, there are crowds everywhere fighting for meager resources... Jesus Christ, only someone in a developed country brainwashed by liberal propaganda could believe this. Try going somewhere poor and dirty with far less opportunity, and see if people think this way. I swear there must be something in our goddamn water. >Does having kids suddenly make one happy? I see so many parents stressed all the time, simply trying to provide for their kids. How do you explain that? Probably because they are physically unhealthy. Developed worlds are physically unhealthy, I can't think of any better explanation. I see families with more kids and less money all over the world who are way happier (and technically speaking, more successful from an evolutionary standpoint). Sure having kids is a stressor but so is everything meaningful that requires human activity. The difference is that healthy humans seek it out and derive long term happiness (not pleasure or euphoria) from it. And they can handle it sustainably. Sentiments like these really make me believe more and more that there is some kind of dysgenic sickness in the West.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

I dunno, it sounds like a good, stable and healthy life - there is nothing wrong with stability. There's millions, if not billions of people that struggle to survive, for who a life like that is unimaginable bliss. Yes it's boring, predictable, probably unfulfilling but there's a long way down to go. In the US for example, people with such a lifestyle could find themselves suddenly plummeted in debt and doubt if e.g. they become ill or have an accident.

Buldak 8y ago

I suppose nothing could be more "default," necessarily, than reproducing.

netsharc 8y ago

I feel like "Get a job, get married, have kids" meme is also just that, a meme. Of course it's a meme supported by biology/genetics, but why is that the path to happiness? On the other hand, we learn to be happy with what we have, according to these 2 authors (who happened to have TED talks): https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfcro5iM5vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfcro5iM5vw