4 ms·

OP can always correct me if I'm wrong in my defensiveness.

by 9214 8y ago

wiremine 8y ago
I'm not the OP (and not associated with red an anyway, other than being a fan of REBOL), and I agree the wording deserved to be called out. "cult" and "Czech wizardry" aren't exactly positive framing words. Hopefully this doesn't spiral into a discussion about PC comments, because red looks to be cool and deserves a good technical discussion; but I don't think 9214 was off base calling out the comment.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  > "Czech wizardry" It could be a compliment of course, like "wow, this stuff is amazing tech wizardry that should be much more appreciated, and probably would be if not for the language barrier!" Let's just agree that natural languages are too fuzzy and ambiguous and assume good faith.
  - 9214 8y ago
    Frankly, I don't get what Czech has to do with it and why it was mentioned. Major part of old-timers (from Rebol era) in our community are indeed Czech people, but Red development was initiated in France, moved to China, and now bridges people across the whole Europe. Putting such emphasis on nationality without any clear reason IMO looks strange and raises my eyebrow, to say the least.
  - MikeLui 8y ago
    I'm reminded of this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/opinion/reclaiming-jew.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/opinion/reclaiming-jew.ht... > To be “a real Christian” is a compliment, but to be “a real Jew” is considered an insult.
- 9214 8y ago
  I admit that I can get off the base when it comes to critique from outsiders uninvolved in the project, and appreciate cross-checks from others. Besides, a warning shot won't hurt anyone.
DSingularity 8y ago
Okay, but just an FYI that was probably a complement. Wizardry and magic has positive vibes in American culture. I can see how that might not be the case in others.
- 9214 8y ago
  "Wizardry" surrounded by "cult", "no highly visible projects" and "shortcomings", followed by unbacked focus on a particular national group reads more like "quackery" to me. I get that meaning might be lost in translation, but also think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum.
  - Spare_account 8y ago
    > [I] think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum. As per HackerNews Guidelines page [1]: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - 9214 8y ago
      Touche.
  - sevensor 8y ago
    > it's fair to assume the worst I, on the other hand, will upvote your comments because they add context to my own.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    This definitely seems like a language issue. “Wizardry” has a very positive connotation of using technical magic to achieve amazing results.

OP can always correct me if I'm wrong in my defensiveness.

by 9214 8y ago

OP can always correct me if I'm wrong in my defensiveness.

I'm not the OP (and not associated with red an anyway, other than being a fan of REBOL), and I agree the wording deserved to be called out. "cult" and "Czech wizardry" aren't exactly positive framing words. Hopefully this doesn't spiral into a discussion about PC comments, because red looks to be cool and deserves a good technical discussion; but I don't think 9214 was off base calling out the comment.

vanderZwan 8y ago
> "Czech wizardry" It could be a compliment of course, like "wow, this stuff is amazing tech wizardry that should be much more appreciated, and probably would be if not for the language barrier!" Let's just agree that natural languages are too fuzzy and ambiguous and assume good faith.
- 9214 8y ago
  Frankly, I don't get what Czech has to do with it and why it was mentioned. Major part of old-timers (from Rebol era) in our community are indeed Czech people, but Red development was initiated in France, moved to China, and now bridges people across the whole Europe. Putting such emphasis on nationality without any clear reason IMO looks strange and raises my eyebrow, to say the least.
- MikeLui 8y ago
  I'm reminded of this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/opinion/reclaiming-jew.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/opinion/reclaiming-jew.ht... > To be “a real Christian” is a compliment, but to be “a real Jew” is considered an insult.
9214 8y ago
I admit that I can get off the base when it comes to critique from outsiders uninvolved in the project, and appreciate cross-checks from others. Besides, a warning shot won't hurt anyone.

DSingularity 8y ago

Okay, but just an FYI that was probably a complement. Wizardry and magic has positive vibes in American culture. I can see how that might not be the case in others.

9214 8y ago
"Wizardry" surrounded by "cult", "no highly visible projects" and "shortcomings", followed by unbacked focus on a particular national group reads more like "quackery" to me. I get that meaning might be lost in translation, but also think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum.
- Spare_account 8y ago
  > [I] think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum. As per HackerNews Guidelines page [1]: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 9214 8y ago
    Touche.
- sevensor 8y ago
  > it's fair to assume the worst I, on the other hand, will upvote your comments because they add context to my own.
- ummonk 8y ago
  This definitely seems like a language issue. “Wizardry” has a very positive connotation of using technical magic to achieve amazing results.