5 ms·

> My quest for relearning C++ started in November 2018. That’s great! I’ve been using it since 2013 and still haven’t learned it!

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
stinos 8y ago
Spot on really. I've been actively using it for more than a decade, including a good portion of the darker things, and still won't claim 'I learned it'. I did 'learn how to use it for the particular purpose of some projects' is what I'd say. Or in other words: I'm fairly good at C++ but from time to time there's still Q&A on reddit or stackoverflow that makes me go like 'whaaaaaat?'
jf- 8y ago
As an occasional and reluctant user of C++, this is my comment of the week.
nallerooth 8y ago
My thought exactly. I know a few people who have been using C++ for several years who go "Oh, you can do that?" every now and then. I guess it's a blend of freedom of design and programmers being a little stuck in their ways of how a certain problem is solved.
blub 8y ago
What language can one say that they fully master? I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed. I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I find the whole exercise pointless and unpleasant. Unless one wants to be on the standards body, it's not really worth trying to learn C++ (or any other language) at 100% IMO.
- chooseaname 8y ago
  > What language can one say that they fully master? And does it really matter if you don't? No, not at all.
- imglorp 8y ago
  It's worth pointing out one measure of complexity: the Stroustrup book (4th ed) is 1376 pages, and that was 2013. Since then there's been how many layers more on top? As a contrast, the description of Common Lisp syntax fits on a sticky note, but the library and semantics spec take about the same number of pages to describe a similar amount of functionality. The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum. I'd say it's a syntax x language semantics x libraries triangle. Common Lisp may have trivial syntax, but there are some hidden gems of complexity in the language semantics level. To this day I don't really understand eval-when, and I've been using Common Lisp for the past 9 years.
    - imglorp 8y ago
      Yeah that sounds about right. It's a 3 space.
- kace91 8y ago
  >What language can one say that they fully master? Incidentally, after working with node for a couple years near really knowledgeable coworkers, it's been the first time in my life as a developer that I feel I have a near complete understanding of the language I'm using. Granted, most of that feeling probably comes from the small standard library (which is the root of several important issues, as we all know), and the feeling adds nothing to your life as a developer except for a vague sense of comfort, but it's still nice.
- goatlover 8y ago
Balero 8y ago
I think I read somewhere Bjarne Stroustrup rated himself 7/10 at C++.
mindcrime 8y ago
I started learning C++ about 1993 or so, and I feel like I know less about it now than I did in 2001. Of course I haven't written a line of C++ in anger since about 2003, so there's been ~15 years of changes that I haven't kept up with. Part of me wants to dive in and really re-learn modern C++, but finding time is always the challenge. Just for context, I was such a C++ bigot at one time that my car's license plate read C++HACKR and my personal website was on the cpphacker.org domain. But somehow I drifted into doing more Java and wound up mostly leaving the C++ world. Edit: heck, this conversation triggered such a pang of nostalgia that I just re-registered cpphacker.org. Maybe I'll go back to having a personal website there. I've been thinking hard about setting up a new personal site and ditching Facebook anyway...
zwieback 8y ago
Yeah, I've been using it since 1992 and am now thinking of "relearning" it as well, having drifted off into C# and Python. It'll be interesting to see how things that seem natural in those languages feel in modern C++.
nambit 8y ago
Yup. That's when I stopped reading.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

stinos 8y ago

Spot on really. I've been actively using it for more than a decade, including a good portion of the darker things, and still won't claim 'I learned it'. I did 'learn how to use it for the particular purpose of some projects' is what I'd say. Or in other words: I'm fairly good at C++ but from time to time there's still Q&A on reddit or stackoverflow that makes me go like 'whaaaaaat?'

jf- 8y ago

As an occasional and reluctant user of C++, this is my comment of the week.

nallerooth 8y ago

My thought exactly. I know a few people who have been using C++ for several years who go "Oh, you can do that?" every now and then. I guess it's a blend of freedom of design and programmers being a little stuck in their ways of how a certain problem is solved.

blub 8y ago

What language can one say that they fully master? I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed. I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I find the whole exercise pointless and unpleasant. Unless one wants to be on the standards body, it's not really worth trying to learn C++ (or any other language) at 100% IMO.

chooseaname 8y ago
> What language can one say that they fully master? And does it really matter if you don't? No, not at all.
imglorp 8y ago
It's worth pointing out one measure of complexity: the Stroustrup book (4th ed) is 1376 pages, and that was 2013. Since then there's been how many layers more on top? As a contrast, the description of Common Lisp syntax fits on a sticky note, but the library and semantics spec take about the same number of pages to describe a similar amount of functionality. The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum. I'd say it's a syntax x language semantics x libraries triangle. Common Lisp may have trivial syntax, but there are some hidden gems of complexity in the language semantics level. To this day I don't really understand eval-when, and I've been using Common Lisp for the past 9 years.
  - imglorp 8y ago
    Yeah that sounds about right. It's a 3 space.
kace91 8y ago
>What language can one say that they fully master? Incidentally, after working with node for a couple years near really knowledgeable coworkers, it's been the first time in my life as a developer that I feel I have a near complete understanding of the language I'm using. Granted, most of that feeling probably comes from the small standard library (which is the root of several important issues, as we all know), and the feeling adds nothing to your life as a developer except for a vague sense of comfort, but it's still nice.
goatlover 8y ago

Balero 8y ago

I think I read somewhere Bjarne Stroustrup rated himself 7/10 at C++.

mindcrime 8y ago

I started learning C++ about 1993 or so, and I feel like I know less about it now than I did in 2001. Of course I haven't written a line of C++ in anger since about 2003, so there's been ~15 years of changes that I haven't kept up with. Part of me wants to dive in and really re-learn modern C++, but finding time is always the challenge. Just for context, I was such a C++ bigot at one time that my car's license plate read C++HACKR and my personal website was on the cpphacker.org domain. But somehow I drifted into doing more Java and wound up mostly leaving the C++ world. Edit: heck, this conversation triggered such a pang of nostalgia that I just re-registered cpphacker.org. Maybe I'll go back to having a personal website there. I've been thinking hard about setting up a new personal site and ditching Facebook anyway...

zwieback 8y ago

Yeah, I've been using it since 1992 and am now thinking of "relearning" it as well, having drifted off into C# and Python. It'll be interesting to see how things that seem natural in those languages feel in modern C++.

nambit 8y ago

Yup. That's when I stopped reading.