5 ms·

I agree that semi trucks represent a massive amount of road damage, and iirc the way we structure our road costs represents a $60B transfer of wealth to the tru

I agree that semi trucks represent a massive amount of road damage, and iirc the way we structure our road costs represents a $60B transfer of wealth to the trucking industry. I wish we’d reverse that, as we could then start seriously looking at trains as a more reasonable means of moving most of our bulk goods. Of course, it’s not like EV semitrucks won’t have the same weight issues as passenger cars. The same issues with energy density apply there too. EV semitrucks will either need to be heavier or more plentiful to compensate for the loss of range or towing capacity compared to diesel. As an aside, we need to revisit the 4,000lb standard for sedans. The heaviest Honda Civic weighs 3,000lb, my Mazda 3 weighs under 3,000lb, and a Mazda 6 weighs at most 3,500lb. These days you need a luxury or performance sedan before you start touching the 4,000lb mark.

freehunter 8y ago
>we need to revisit the 4,000lb standard for sedans Agreed. A quick Google search shows the average US vehicle is 4,000 lbs or above, but that includes vans and trucks and SUVs. The average sedan is closer to or below 3500 lbs.
sokoloff 8y ago
> These days you need a luxury or performance sedan before you start touching the 4,000lb mark. Agreed. I picked 4000# as the reference against a Model S (which clearly competes more with an A6 or E-class than a Civic) and the Model 3 I compare more to an A4.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  None of those are "standard" sedans. Not by a long shot. It's perfectly reasonable to compare an A3 to a Model 3, but it's not reasonable to say that the standard sedan is 4000#, since Civics & similar outnumber Audis & similar by an order of magnitude or so. The point still remains that an EV is about 8-12% heavier than a sedan in its same class (see sibling comment below). This will apply to semitrucks too as those electrify, which'll be a bigger deal than sedans.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    A Civic or an A3 is not a mid-sized sedan by any stretch of that category. I used 4000# as a typical mid-size sedan as-driven weight with an allowance for a person or two and fuel.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      > A Civic or an A3 is not a mid-sized sedan by any stretch of that category. The Civic sedan is only 2" smaller length wise and 2" narrower than a Tesla 3. Size wise, this is a perfectly fair comparison, and the Civic weights 1,000lbs less. That's a pretty close comparison from a size perspective. You are correct about the A3, it is indeed much smaller than a Tesla 3. But the A4 is 1" longer than the 3 (identical in other dimensions), and weighs about 400lbs less. > I used 4000# as a typical mid-size sedan as-driven weight with an allowance for a person or two and fuel. Curb weight includes all necessary equipment, including oil and gasoline for ICE vehicles. Given that there is no reason to expect that an EV driver is a different weight than an ICE driver, it's completely fair to compare the two by curb weight only.

freehunter 8y ago

>we need to revisit the 4,000lb standard for sedans Agreed. A quick Google search shows the average US vehicle is 4,000 lbs or above, but that includes vans and trucks and SUVs. The average sedan is closer to or below 3500 lbs.

sokoloff 8y ago

> These days you need a luxury or performance sedan before you start touching the 4,000lb mark. Agreed. I picked 4000# as the reference against a Model S (which clearly competes more with an A6 or E-class than a Civic) and the Model 3 I compare more to an A4.

village-idiot 8y ago
None of those are "standard" sedans. Not by a long shot. It's perfectly reasonable to compare an A3 to a Model 3, but it's not reasonable to say that the standard sedan is 4000#, since Civics & similar outnumber Audis & similar by an order of magnitude or so. The point still remains that an EV is about 8-12% heavier than a sedan in its same class (see sibling comment below). This will apply to semitrucks too as those electrify, which'll be a bigger deal than sedans.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  A Civic or an A3 is not a mid-sized sedan by any stretch of that category. I used 4000# as a typical mid-size sedan as-driven weight with an allowance for a person or two and fuel.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    > A Civic or an A3 is not a mid-sized sedan by any stretch of that category. The Civic sedan is only 2" smaller length wise and 2" narrower than a Tesla 3. Size wise, this is a perfectly fair comparison, and the Civic weights 1,000lbs less. That's a pretty close comparison from a size perspective. You are correct about the A3, it is indeed much smaller than a Tesla 3. But the A4 is 1" longer than the 3 (identical in other dimensions), and weighs about 400lbs less. > I used 4000# as a typical mid-size sedan as-driven weight with an allowance for a person or two and fuel. Curb weight includes all necessary equipment, including oil and gasoline for ICE vehicles. Given that there is no reason to expect that an EV driver is a different weight than an ICE driver, it's completely fair to compare the two by curb weight only.