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I'm a zim user too but looking to replace it. Why is Electron a deal breaker for you? (Also, in case you didn't notice, you can host Trilium on a server if you

by dagurp 8y ago

I'm a zim user too but looking to replace it. Why is Electron a deal breaker for you? (Also, in case you didn't notice, you can host Trilium on a server if you want to)

bayindirh 8y ago
I'm an old folk in terms of computer history [0], and while my computers are not resource constrained, I'm resource conscious. Also, I'm a high performance computing sysadmin and researcher, so I know what computers can do with what amount of resources. I'm extremely annoyed by the fact of running a complete browser engine and sacrifice half gigabytes of memory and a lot of storage (I cannot remember the exact size of Atom) just for a text editor or any other software with the same caliber. Also, Electron consumes more resources than it needs. When running on any Electron app on my Mac, I generally get a notification about its power usage too. e.g.: Atom is not as powerful as Eclipse, but needs more resources per feature. BBEdit is much lighter and compact, and is nearly as useful for me as Atom, and I can run Eclipse if I need a full fledged IDE. Server-only deployment is nice, but I'd rather sync the data, because I'm not always online while taking notes, and if I'm going to keep my data centralized, I'd rather keep it at my home, and I don't have enough upload bandwidth to serve anything like Trillium. BTW, Why are you trying to replace Zim? I'm interested in your reasons. I'm open to and interested in discussion and, I'd happily stand corrected if I'm mistaken. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18839788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18839788
- dagurp 8y ago
  I'm looking for alternatives because Zim is so rarely updated and I'd like more features. It's become very stable though so maybe I shouldn't complain.
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    The plugins provided ample features for me for the time. What are you missing in Zim for example?
- donblanco 8y ago
  I'm not sure why you would think that Trilium, even in Electron form, would be resource intensive. It's not. Upload bandwidth? For syncing data? Unless you keep full video files in it, I can't imagine how that would come into play unless you are using only cell data at below 3G speeds. It seems as if your objections are more based on principle than actual in this case...
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    > I'm not sure why you would think that Trilium, even in Electron form, would be resource intensive. Because NixNote 2 uses 145MBs, Zim Wiki uses 60MBs, nvPy uses 45 MBs, and Atom uses 660MBs on start. > It's not. Can you provide the memory consumption data? > Upload bandwidth? For syncing data? Unless you keep full video files in it, I can't imagine how that would come into play unless you are using only cell data at below 3G speeds. Sorry, but my home ISP is providing extremely asymmetric network speeds. I have 1Mbps upstream bandwidth for every 16Mbps downstream. This is barely keeping up if your home network is shared inside the home, consumed by 2 desktops, a laptop, three mobile phones at minimum. This network also needs to keep up with the daily usage needs. It's not realistic to peg the upload bandwidth just because I can. > It seems as if your objections are more based on principle than actual in this case... My principles are born out of actual cases. I'm not that conservative to try new technologies or applications, but I'm against wasting resources on my personal devices because hardware is cheap. I believe that efficient applications (in resource utilization) are always better in the long run. At least you can run more applications with the same hardware. I won't dive into details about how heavy applications like Atom or frameworks like Electron increases background CPU and power usage with interrupts, wakes, small spikes and such.
mxuribe 8y ago
Yeah i was a happy zim user but kept hitting the wall that zim is clearly designed for the desktop. While i don't take as many notes on mobile as I do on desktop, i still have the need for mobile notes...and zim fell short. I know there are alternative methods where some folks use zim on their desktop and then for mobile leverage dropbox - both for synching the zim files and using dropbox's text editor (such as it is). but this mode left me wanting more. I really loved zim, but lately i've been using the notes app on self-hosted nextcloud - which is synched to my desktops via nextcloud's sync client. I'm only a few weeks into this experiment, but so far, so good. I think the day that zim moves into territory where it is more easily workable on mobile, is when it will be a top dog for note-taking platforms.
- bayindirh 8y ago
  For simple, single page notes you can try simplenote [0]. It has nice Mac, Linux, iOS, Android clients, tagging and markdown support, and instant sync on official clients. It's also free. I use it for non-sensitive fast notes like a reminder notebook. Also, applications/cliens like nvALT, nvPY provide a very very fast workflow for instinctive note taking and recalling. [0]: https://simplenote.com https://simplenote.com

by dagurp 8y ago

I'm a zim user too but looking to replace it. Why is Electron a deal breaker for you? (Also, in case you didn't notice, you can host Trilium on a server if you want to)

bayindirh 8y ago

I'm an old folk in terms of computer history [0], and while my computers are not resource constrained, I'm resource conscious. Also, I'm a high performance computing sysadmin and researcher, so I know what computers can do with what amount of resources. I'm extremely annoyed by the fact of running a complete browser engine and sacrifice half gigabytes of memory and a lot of storage (I cannot remember the exact size of Atom) just for a text editor or any other software with the same caliber. Also, Electron consumes more resources than it needs. When running on any Electron app on my Mac, I generally get a notification about its power usage too. e.g.: Atom is not as powerful as Eclipse, but needs more resources per feature. BBEdit is much lighter and compact, and is nearly as useful for me as Atom, and I can run Eclipse if I need a full fledged IDE. Server-only deployment is nice, but I'd rather sync the data, because I'm not always online while taking notes, and if I'm going to keep my data centralized, I'd rather keep it at my home, and I don't have enough upload bandwidth to serve anything like Trillium. BTW, Why are you trying to replace Zim? I'm interested in your reasons. I'm open to and interested in discussion and, I'd happily stand corrected if I'm mistaken. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18839788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18839788

dagurp 8y ago
I'm looking for alternatives because Zim is so rarely updated and I'd like more features. It's become very stable though so maybe I shouldn't complain.
- bayindirh 8y ago
  The plugins provided ample features for me for the time. What are you missing in Zim for example?
donblanco 8y ago
I'm not sure why you would think that Trilium, even in Electron form, would be resource intensive. It's not. Upload bandwidth? For syncing data? Unless you keep full video files in it, I can't imagine how that would come into play unless you are using only cell data at below 3G speeds. It seems as if your objections are more based on principle than actual in this case...
- bayindirh 8y ago
  > I'm not sure why you would think that Trilium, even in Electron form, would be resource intensive. Because NixNote 2 uses 145MBs, Zim Wiki uses 60MBs, nvPy uses 45 MBs, and Atom uses 660MBs on start. > It's not. Can you provide the memory consumption data? > Upload bandwidth? For syncing data? Unless you keep full video files in it, I can't imagine how that would come into play unless you are using only cell data at below 3G speeds. Sorry, but my home ISP is providing extremely asymmetric network speeds. I have 1Mbps upstream bandwidth for every 16Mbps downstream. This is barely keeping up if your home network is shared inside the home, consumed by 2 desktops, a laptop, three mobile phones at minimum. This network also needs to keep up with the daily usage needs. It's not realistic to peg the upload bandwidth just because I can. > It seems as if your objections are more based on principle than actual in this case... My principles are born out of actual cases. I'm not that conservative to try new technologies or applications, but I'm against wasting resources on my personal devices because hardware is cheap. I believe that efficient applications (in resource utilization) are always better in the long run. At least you can run more applications with the same hardware. I won't dive into details about how heavy applications like Atom or frameworks like Electron increases background CPU and power usage with interrupts, wakes, small spikes and such.

mxuribe 8y ago

Yeah i was a happy zim user but kept hitting the wall that zim is clearly designed for the desktop. While i don't take as many notes on mobile as I do on desktop, i still have the need for mobile notes...and zim fell short. I know there are alternative methods where some folks use zim on their desktop and then for mobile leverage dropbox - both for synching the zim files and using dropbox's text editor (such as it is). but this mode left me wanting more. I really loved zim, but lately i've been using the notes app on self-hosted nextcloud - which is synched to my desktops via nextcloud's sync client. I'm only a few weeks into this experiment, but so far, so good. I think the day that zim moves into territory where it is more easily workable on mobile, is when it will be a top dog for note-taking platforms.

bayindirh 8y ago
For simple, single page notes you can try simplenote [0]. It has nice Mac, Linux, iOS, Android clients, tagging and markdown support, and instant sync on official clients. It's also free. I use it for non-sensitive fast notes like a reminder notebook. Also, applications/cliens like nvALT, nvPY provide a very very fast workflow for instinctive note taking and recalling. [0]: https://simplenote.com https://simplenote.com