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> Public perception and the news cycle makes the death of American service member a bigger deal than in past conflicts. How does this compare to say Vietnam? I

> Public perception and the news cycle makes the death of American service member a bigger deal than in past conflicts. How does this compare to say Vietnam? It feels to me like the populace is worse divided, it’s disaffected. It seems like the new normal to have some god forsaken outpost where a few dozen soldiers die a year (not to mention thousands of local population - they’re even less of a consideration).

ForHackernews 8y ago
The populace is not more divided now. They just don't remember how it used to be. > “People have completely forgotten that in 1972 we had over nineteen hundred domestic bombings in the United States.” — Max Noel, FBI (ret.) https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/ https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/
Balero 8y ago
There has been an order of magnitude less casualties in both Iraq(4,424) and Afghanistan(1,856), than in Vietnam (58,220).
- skh 8y ago
  I agree with the overall point of your post but one should count contractor deaths. My understanding is that the U.S. military is much more reliant on contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan than in Vietnam.
  - pmorici 8y ago
    Even including contractors there was still an order of magnitude more casualties in Vietnam.
    - skh 8y ago
      Do you have numbers on contractor deaths? I’ve not seen them. I’m not disputing that Vietnam involved many times more deaths for Americans. Just stating that one should include contractor deaths since the U.S. military decided to contract out so much of its war effort.
      - pmorici 8y ago
        Low hundreds if you only consider American citizens. There is some info on Wikipedia but it hasn’t been updated in a few years. Thing is there were also a lot of contractors in Vietnam just not the Blackwater type that gets a lot of the press in this era.
barry-cotter 8y ago
Yeah but no one in the median journalist’s social circle is dying. The change from a draft to a volunteer army was enormous. No one goes to war against their will anymore. People care much, much less if it’s not their brother, their son, their cousin. And when volunteers come home in a box their family knows they chose to go. Hard to organise a march against war out of people who either have no personal connection to the military or who want to honour the service of the fallen.
- lbotos 8y ago
  >No one goes to war against their will anymore. <snark> Please tell that to the kids that are enlisting so they can actually afford to go to college in the US. </snark> I know there is a difference between drafting and enlistment, but I know there are a lot of people in the military because it was "the way out" of their situation.
  - nerpderp82 8y ago
    Advantages to having chronic structural income inequality? A not insignificant proportion of the US military is foreign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanics_in_the_United_States_Marine_Corps#Hispanic_immigrants_in_the_Marine_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanics_in_the_United_States...

ForHackernews 8y ago

The populace is not more divided now. They just don't remember how it used to be. > “People have completely forgotten that in 1972 we had over nineteen hundred domestic bombings in the United States.” — Max Noel, FBI (ret.) https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/ https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/

Balero 8y ago

There has been an order of magnitude less casualties in both Iraq(4,424) and Afghanistan(1,856), than in Vietnam (58,220).

skh 8y ago
I agree with the overall point of your post but one should count contractor deaths. My understanding is that the U.S. military is much more reliant on contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan than in Vietnam.
- pmorici 8y ago
  Even including contractors there was still an order of magnitude more casualties in Vietnam.
  - skh 8y ago
    Do you have numbers on contractor deaths? I’ve not seen them. I’m not disputing that Vietnam involved many times more deaths for Americans. Just stating that one should include contractor deaths since the U.S. military decided to contract out so much of its war effort.
    - pmorici 8y ago
      Low hundreds if you only consider American citizens. There is some info on Wikipedia but it hasn’t been updated in a few years. Thing is there were also a lot of contractors in Vietnam just not the Blackwater type that gets a lot of the press in this era.

barry-cotter 8y ago

Yeah but no one in the median journalist’s social circle is dying. The change from a draft to a volunteer army was enormous. No one goes to war against their will anymore. People care much, much less if it’s not their brother, their son, their cousin. And when volunteers come home in a box their family knows they chose to go. Hard to organise a march against war out of people who either have no personal connection to the military or who want to honour the service of the fallen.

lbotos 8y ago
>No one goes to war against their will anymore. <snark> Please tell that to the kids that are enlisting so they can actually afford to go to college in the US. </snark> I know there is a difference between drafting and enlistment, but I know there are a lot of people in the military because it was "the way out" of their situation.
- nerpderp82 8y ago
  Advantages to having chronic structural income inequality? A not insignificant proportion of the US military is foreign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanics_in_the_United_States_Marine_Corps#Hispanic_immigrants_in_the_Marine_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanics_in_the_United_States...