5 ms·

> Meanwhile, our relationship grew more acrimonious. He clearly no longer trusted me and this was beginning to poison all our interactions. > Finally, I had th

> Meanwhile, our relationship grew more acrimonious. He clearly no longer trusted me and this was beginning to poison all our interactions. > Finally, I had this moment where I felt that my efforts to ramp up the pressure to force him to stop had crossed some line. I felt I was turning into an abusive parent. #$@#%?!??! What the hell is wrong with this person? It's hand-licking. The child isn't sticking forks in outlets or punching teachers. Laugh at it if you can't figure it out and get on with your lives. > I was a young homemaker, financially dependent on my husband, and I was feeling enormously pressured by both of these people. I also felt they both had real careers and didn't genuinely respect me. They both felt it was my job and mine alone to somehow make my son stop licking his hands entirely. This also sits really weirdly with me. Doesn't matter who's working and who isn't: The child has two parents. Parenting is a collaboration. (If you feel disrespected as the non-working parent, that's something to be worked out between you and your partner, not your child.)

jachee 8y ago
People in Kansas are quite conservative, generally. She also mentions her husband being military. I'm sure the combination of those factors helped lead to her becoming de facto sole child rearer.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  In fact, he was gone six months out of the year the entire time we were in Kansas. It was the worst duty station in that regard in roughly two decades as a military family.
  - chasing 8y ago
    The tone of my original comment had a bit more "shouting at the TV" to it than it should've. Apologies for that. It's tough to comment on people's lives and kids even if you know them -- much more so if you don't.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      On the internet, you shout at TV, TV shouts back. ;) It's all good. My sons are adults and basically adore me. I hear probably daily "You're an awesome mom and I'm so glad you raised me!" even though the oldest is so Aspie, he will not and has never told me he loves me. Feelings: Not his cup of tea.
      - chasing 8y ago
        Very glad to hear it!
darkerside 8y ago
You've obviously not been in a position like this before, so let me share a thought. It was really difficult for the author to admit these things. She didn't paint herself in a positive light. You were treated to raw honesty in a way that is ever more rare in a society where our words can haunt us for decades. And you react, not by appreciating this gesture, but by judging it, and from a wildly underinformed perspective. It's ok not to have empathy for situations you haven't been in, but I recommend you handle it by asking and seeking to learn. Not to say you don't have some valid thoughts in there, but man, you are missing out on a ton of unspoken context.
- chasing 8y ago
  Okay, but she did write it up and it wound up on Hacker News, so I do feel it reasonable to comment on. Don't assume I didn't think about the piece. And I cringed hard specifically because of my empathy for the child in that situation, having his relationship with his mom harmed for reasons he didn't understand. I did apologize for the tone in a direct reply to the author -- that's fair. Also: Maybe don't assume what positions I have or have not been in as a parent.
  - tokai 8y ago
    Thank you for your posts chasing. This whole thread is so bizar to me. Almost all of the posters making any kind of sense are downvoted. How depressing.
  - darkerside 8y ago
    You're right to have comments, and my only gripe was with the tone. Having been on both sides of it now, parenting is just really hard. And there really is a ton of social pressure to get it right, like no other pressure you've had. Get your job wrong, the worst case is you get fired (for most people without life or death jobs). Get parenting wrong and they literally take away your child forever. I'm sorry for making assumptions. It seemed pretty clear to me that you haven't been on the other side of this, and there would be nothing wrong with that anyway. Different phase of life and all that. And in sorry for what you've been through. Being abused by a parent, who should be your source of all things good and loving, is a terrible thing.
svat 8y ago
I remember reading the following observation somewhere. If one says, in abstract, “I do not always manage to do the thing I know is right; I occasionally have moral lapses”, then people will nod knowingly and empathize — they will admit the same about themselves. But if one mentions anything specific — “sometimes I find it hard not to be racist”, “sometimes I hit my child” — then one gets a reaction of “You monster! What the hell is wrong with you?” etc., as here. And yet I think that, faced as we all are with the task of living according to our values, it is discussions of the latter sort that are more valuable and instructive. (Recalled where I encountered this: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-obvious-truths-that-are-rarely-acknowledged/answer/Marcus-Geduld https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-obvious-truths-that-are-... )

jachee 8y ago

People in Kansas are quite conservative, generally. She also mentions her husband being military. I'm sure the combination of those factors helped lead to her becoming de facto sole child rearer.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
In fact, he was gone six months out of the year the entire time we were in Kansas. It was the worst duty station in that regard in roughly two decades as a military family.
- chasing 8y ago
  The tone of my original comment had a bit more "shouting at the TV" to it than it should've. Apologies for that. It's tough to comment on people's lives and kids even if you know them -- much more so if you don't.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    On the internet, you shout at TV, TV shouts back. ;) It's all good. My sons are adults and basically adore me. I hear probably daily "You're an awesome mom and I'm so glad you raised me!" even though the oldest is so Aspie, he will not and has never told me he loves me. Feelings: Not his cup of tea.
    - chasing 8y ago
      Very glad to hear it!

darkerside 8y ago

You've obviously not been in a position like this before, so let me share a thought. It was really difficult for the author to admit these things. She didn't paint herself in a positive light. You were treated to raw honesty in a way that is ever more rare in a society where our words can haunt us for decades. And you react, not by appreciating this gesture, but by judging it, and from a wildly underinformed perspective. It's ok not to have empathy for situations you haven't been in, but I recommend you handle it by asking and seeking to learn. Not to say you don't have some valid thoughts in there, but man, you are missing out on a ton of unspoken context.

chasing 8y ago
Okay, but she did write it up and it wound up on Hacker News, so I do feel it reasonable to comment on. Don't assume I didn't think about the piece. And I cringed hard specifically because of my empathy for the child in that situation, having his relationship with his mom harmed for reasons he didn't understand. I did apologize for the tone in a direct reply to the author -- that's fair. Also: Maybe don't assume what positions I have or have not been in as a parent.
- tokai 8y ago
  Thank you for your posts chasing. This whole thread is so bizar to me. Almost all of the posters making any kind of sense are downvoted. How depressing.
- darkerside 8y ago
  You're right to have comments, and my only gripe was with the tone. Having been on both sides of it now, parenting is just really hard. And there really is a ton of social pressure to get it right, like no other pressure you've had. Get your job wrong, the worst case is you get fired (for most people without life or death jobs). Get parenting wrong and they literally take away your child forever. I'm sorry for making assumptions. It seemed pretty clear to me that you haven't been on the other side of this, and there would be nothing wrong with that anyway. Different phase of life and all that. And in sorry for what you've been through. Being abused by a parent, who should be your source of all things good and loving, is a terrible thing.

svat 8y ago

I remember reading the following observation somewhere. If one says, in abstract, “I do not always manage to do the thing I know is right; I occasionally have moral lapses”, then people will nod knowingly and empathize — they will admit the same about themselves. But if one mentions anything specific — “sometimes I find it hard not to be racist”, “sometimes I hit my child” — then one gets a reaction of “You monster! What the hell is wrong with you?” etc., as here. And yet I think that, faced as we all are with the task of living according to our values, it is discussions of the latter sort that are more valuable and instructive. (Recalled where I encountered this: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-obvious-truths-that-are-rarely-acknowledged/answer/Marcus-Geduld https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-obvious-truths-that-are-... )