4 ms·

Hah! Well let’s do an experiment. I’m going to give what I think is the point of view of your typical right winger and your typical centrist democrat, and the

Hah! Well let’s do an experiment. I’m going to give what I think is the point of view of your typical right winger and your typical centrist democrat, and then hopefully someone can educate me as to where I’m wrong. To be clear I’m going to go for the basic profile here. Nuance is for cowards. Conservatives: I was born in 1948. When I was a young adult, everyone was ok and everything made sense. There was an order to things, everyone had a place. Our great enemy was communism; we had capitalism and were free, while our enemies were communists and lived under dictatorship. I was afraid of communism because communists almost blew up the world, plus we fought them in Vietnam. Communists are bad people and therefore their ideas are bad ideas. I suspect that all liberals are either explicitly communist or are being misled by communist appeals to emotionalism. What we need is a strong rational person who will take charge and root out the people who are getting out of place and ruining things for everyone else. Centrist liberal: I was born in 1972. When I was a young adult, politics were civil and everyone was polite. I never really paid attention to politics because I thought it was boring. I like my job and I think my boss is a great guy. My favorite political figure was Martin Luther king, because he said that everyone should be nice and get along. I’m not racist, because I like Martin Luther king. I don’t understand why everyone seems so angry these days. Technology is so amazing these days, it’s just going faster and faster. I love buying new fancy things. I think that if we could just elect more democrats to congress, then everyone will be nice again and stop being so nasty to each other. How’s my empathy? Am I close? I would love it if someone would give a similar treatment to the anarchist/socialist point of view, just so I can see what kinds of silly things people believe about me. Turnabout is fair play. Let me have it.

jeffdavis 8y ago
I think the main flaw is thinking that there is some "typical" person from each group. But you are close enough to write a few tertiary characters for an Oscar-winning picture. (Though not a main character; those usually develop throughout the movie and don't fit a static description.)
jeffdavis 8y ago
A bit off topic, but I am confused how anarchism and socialism can work together. Can you explain?
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Well, first you figure out which genes code for self-interested behavior...
  - fallingfrog 8y ago
    Huh?
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      State communism is diametrically opposed to anarchist personal freedom, because what are you going to do about the defectors that use their personal freedom to start trading? You have to be able to turn off the "personal freedom" switch once someone starts doing something that, if left unchecked, would switch society to a different form of government. The joke is that if you're not going to do it with police (which would be authoritarian), then you'd have to make it so that the idea "why don't we exchange goods and services," and the idea "why don't we band together to get one up on every other race," and the idea "why don't we start bashing unpopular people's heads in to steal their corn," never even enters into the minds of people who want to climb up higher than everyone else.
      - fallingfrog 8y ago
        Exchanging things for things is fine under anarchism. Exchanging your freedom for money would be bad. The question: how do you keep it from happening without a big nasty authoritarian state? Is a valid one. In my view there would be 3 safeguards: 1) it would be seen as morally repugnant, like banging your cousin. 2) the other, democratic businesses in the area would just refuse to do business with you 3) in the absence of material want, nobody would feel compelled to sell their labor the way they do now, where they have no real choice. The first thing that happened when England went capitalist in (I think) the 1700’s is that the land that used to be held in common was privatized and people were displaced to the cities, where they had to find jobs. In other words the state deliberately created a situation where people had no choice but to sell their time for money. In the case of someone accumulating actual weapons and attempting an armed power grab, there would be local citizens militias which would converge on the outbreak of violence and contain it. Maybe it won’t work, maybe it will, but we won’t know until we try.
whatshisface 8y ago
>just so I can see what kinds of silly things people believe about me. Ok, I'll give it a shot. Anarchist/Socialist/Anarcho-Capitalist: A lot of my friends support this fringe political position, and they seem cool and well-esteemed within my social circles. Everyone can list a thousand reasons why Republicans or Democrats are corrupt and stupid, and to think of it I don't really know a single person at my university that wholeheartedly supports the platform of either one. I trust the negative things I hear about parties a lot more than the positive things I hear about them, and because the news has never even mentioned the group I consider myself a part of, we're miles ahead of everyone else. To be honest, I don't really see how Democrats or Republicans manage to choose their beliefs, except by imitating each other for social reasons. Any real argument I hear in favor of anything comes across as a rapturous epiphany, because for the first 18 years of my life until now I have only seen other people choosing their beliefs by copying each other for social reasons. I'm so glad that I managed to break free from that system; I'm having a great time visiting the local anarchist bookstore for their special events, and I'm going steady with a girl/guy I met there. My newfound relationships really motivate me to keep up with the literature.
- fallingfrog 8y ago
  Love it! A few things wrong though: I was introduced to socialism in my 30’s after thinking socialist type thoughts for years and believing I was all alone. I’m married and my wife is not so far to the left as me; but we’ve both moved farther left after we got hitched. I do have lots of friends who think more or less this way. I understand that capitalism also has things it does well, and worry about how socialism can replicate those successes (and if it should even try).

jeffdavis 8y ago

I think the main flaw is thinking that there is some "typical" person from each group. But you are close enough to write a few tertiary characters for an Oscar-winning picture. (Though not a main character; those usually develop throughout the movie and don't fit a static description.)

jeffdavis 8y ago

A bit off topic, but I am confused how anarchism and socialism can work together. Can you explain?

whatshisface 8y ago
Well, first you figure out which genes code for self-interested behavior...
- fallingfrog 8y ago
  Huh?
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    State communism is diametrically opposed to anarchist personal freedom, because what are you going to do about the defectors that use their personal freedom to start trading? You have to be able to turn off the "personal freedom" switch once someone starts doing something that, if left unchecked, would switch society to a different form of government. The joke is that if you're not going to do it with police (which would be authoritarian), then you'd have to make it so that the idea "why don't we exchange goods and services," and the idea "why don't we band together to get one up on every other race," and the idea "why don't we start bashing unpopular people's heads in to steal their corn," never even enters into the minds of people who want to climb up higher than everyone else.
    - fallingfrog 8y ago
      Exchanging things for things is fine under anarchism. Exchanging your freedom for money would be bad. The question: how do you keep it from happening without a big nasty authoritarian state? Is a valid one. In my view there would be 3 safeguards: 1) it would be seen as morally repugnant, like banging your cousin. 2) the other, democratic businesses in the area would just refuse to do business with you 3) in the absence of material want, nobody would feel compelled to sell their labor the way they do now, where they have no real choice. The first thing that happened when England went capitalist in (I think) the 1700’s is that the land that used to be held in common was privatized and people were displaced to the cities, where they had to find jobs. In other words the state deliberately created a situation where people had no choice but to sell their time for money. In the case of someone accumulating actual weapons and attempting an armed power grab, there would be local citizens militias which would converge on the outbreak of violence and contain it. Maybe it won’t work, maybe it will, but we won’t know until we try.

whatshisface 8y ago

>just so I can see what kinds of silly things people believe about me. Ok, I'll give it a shot. Anarchist/Socialist/Anarcho-Capitalist: A lot of my friends support this fringe political position, and they seem cool and well-esteemed within my social circles. Everyone can list a thousand reasons why Republicans or Democrats are corrupt and stupid, and to think of it I don't really know a single person at my university that wholeheartedly supports the platform of either one. I trust the negative things I hear about parties a lot more than the positive things I hear about them, and because the news has never even mentioned the group I consider myself a part of, we're miles ahead of everyone else. To be honest, I don't really see how Democrats or Republicans manage to choose their beliefs, except by imitating each other for social reasons. Any real argument I hear in favor of anything comes across as a rapturous epiphany, because for the first 18 years of my life until now I have only seen other people choosing their beliefs by copying each other for social reasons. I'm so glad that I managed to break free from that system; I'm having a great time visiting the local anarchist bookstore for their special events, and I'm going steady with a girl/guy I met there. My newfound relationships really motivate me to keep up with the literature.

fallingfrog 8y ago
Love it! A few things wrong though: I was introduced to socialism in my 30’s after thinking socialist type thoughts for years and believing I was all alone. I’m married and my wife is not so far to the left as me; but we’ve both moved farther left after we got hitched. I do have lots of friends who think more or less this way. I understand that capitalism also has things it does well, and worry about how socialism can replicate those successes (and if it should even try).