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Threema is proprietary and I think it's dangerous to recommend it as an alternative. Everything we trust should be open. Telegram is not perfect but better tha

by VvR-Ox 8y ago

Threema is proprietary and I think it's dangerous to recommend it as an alternative. Everything we trust should be open. Telegram is not perfect but better than WhatsApp. Also there is people who want convenience like history sync - it won't help telling them that it's unsecure. In the end at least facebook doesn't have their data. For NSA etc. it's not that important where stuff is. From the leaks we know they can do everything they want (expertise + huge money) so if you want something more secure you maybe shouldn't use one of the popular solutions at all ;-)

xashor 8y ago
It doesn't relly matter that much if Facebook has your metadata or Telegram has your metadata. What's more important: WhatsApp E2E is more secure than Telegrams self built E2E, that needs to be enabled and doesn't support group chats. Also, Telegram isn't that open source either: server side is closed source and the client side seems to be still an undocumented, mirrored mess. So for me at least, as I don't want anyone that easily to read my messages: many other solutions > WhatsApp > Telegram.
- enitihas 8y ago
  Isn't Telegram open source strictly superior than WhatsApp open source? WhatsApp has neither client side nor server side code available(server side doesn't mean much anyways, as Good luck verifying if that is the code which runs on some server).
chappi42 8y ago
> Threema is proprietary and I think it's dangerous to recommend it as an alternative. Everything we trust should be open. On the other hand, they have been audited [1], have transparency reports [2] and their servers are Swiss based [3]. Yes open source would be nice, but a relative small company with a focused business model (not dependent on advertisement, data-gathering, donations, kind [bi|mi]llionairs) has its advantages too. I'm using Threema since some years and wouldn't want anything else. [1]: https://threema.ch/en/faq/code_audit/ https://threema.ch/en/faq/code_audit/ [2]: https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threema#Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threema#Privacy
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  > their servers are Swiss based So is Crypto AG. Didn't help Iran from keeping secrets from the NSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG [edit to add: not saying that Threema sells out like this, but "they're Swiss" is as meaningless for a security assessment as any other nationality]
- gsich 8y ago
  >their servers are Swiss based which doesn't mean anything.
  - chappi42 8y ago
    Why not? Law, regulation and policies matter. The servers fall under the jurisdiction of the country where they are located. There are certainly other options, but I think Switzerland is among the countries with quite reasonable data protection laws. Here the text... https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19920153/index.html https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19920153/...) or some statements which I found with a quick google search: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ or https://swissmade.host/en/data-protection https://swissmade.host/en/data-protection.

by VvR-Ox 8y ago

xashor 8y ago

It doesn't relly matter that much if Facebook has your metadata or Telegram has your metadata. What's more important: WhatsApp E2E is more secure than Telegrams self built E2E, that needs to be enabled and doesn't support group chats. Also, Telegram isn't that open source either: server side is closed source and the client side seems to be still an undocumented, mirrored mess. So for me at least, as I don't want anyone that easily to read my messages: many other solutions > WhatsApp > Telegram.

enitihas 8y ago
Isn't Telegram open source strictly superior than WhatsApp open source? WhatsApp has neither client side nor server side code available(server side doesn't mean much anyways, as Good luck verifying if that is the code which runs on some server).

chappi42 8y ago

> Threema is proprietary and I think it's dangerous to recommend it as an alternative. Everything we trust should be open. On the other hand, they have been audited [1], have transparency reports [2] and their servers are Swiss based [3]. Yes open source would be nice, but a relative small company with a focused business model (not dependent on advertisement, data-gathering, donations, kind [bi|mi]llionairs) has its advantages too. I'm using Threema since some years and wouldn't want anything else. [1]: https://threema.ch/en/faq/code_audit/ https://threema.ch/en/faq/code_audit/ [2]: https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threema#Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threema#Privacy

pgeorgi 8y ago
> their servers are Swiss based So is Crypto AG. Didn't help Iran from keeping secrets from the NSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG [edit to add: not saying that Threema sells out like this, but "they're Swiss" is as meaningless for a security assessment as any other nationality]
gsich 8y ago
>their servers are Swiss based which doesn't mean anything.
- chappi42 8y ago
  Why not? Law, regulation and policies matter. The servers fall under the jurisdiction of the country where they are located. There are certainly other options, but I think Switzerland is among the countries with quite reasonable data protection laws. Here the text... https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19920153/index.html https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19920153/...) or some statements which I found with a quick google search: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ or https://swissmade.host/en/data-protection https://swissmade.host/en/data-protection.