3 ms·

Is that really true? In my experience, 99.9% of the time I don't need an exact number; the vanishingly few times when I have such a need (almost entirely calcu

Is that really true? In my experience, 99.9% of the time I don't need an exact number; the vanishingly few times when I have such a need (almost entirely calculations involving currency), using a fixed point representation is simple enough.

Gibbon1 8y ago
You don't need an exact number but customer data is universally decimal. Soon as you blindly convert that to IEE754 everything is now broken.
- coddingtonbear 8y ago
  Is it really, though? I'm honestly struggling to think of a non-currency situation in which fractional customer data necessarily be handled as a decimal value -- and, honestly, even if the availability heuristic might make them seem more common than they are, I'd be astonished if even a single percent of general calculations programmers collectively ask computers to perform are involving currency. Most real-life situations just don't even inherently _have_ that kind of precision, let alone need it. Seriously, I can't think of a time when I've needed to store a coordinate or a person's height as a decimal value to prevent something from being broken.
- tedunangst 8y ago
  My 5/8s wrench disagrees. Happens to store quite nicely in a float, however.
dkarl 8y ago
People do different kinds of work, so there are programmers who experience it both ways, 99% of the time floats are good solution or 99% of the time floats are an incorrect solution. Because of history and language support, classes and other resources for learning to program teach you to use floating-point numbers and don't bother with alternatives. As a result you have a lot of programmers who default to treating every number with a dot in it as floating point number, and they get burned by it, and instead of realizing it's just a gap in their education that they can correct, they treat overuse of floats as a mistaken industry-wide consensus that needs to be overturned.
zokier 8y ago
I think there is argument to be made for high-level languages defaulting for arbitrary precision math ("make it correct first, fast second"). But considering that we are still fumbling around with fixed-width integers and that is much simpler domain after all, I don't hold my breath on "solving" the problem of reals any time soon.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  That's exactly my point, why is the default a lossy format? And consider the distinction between variables and calculations. Formats like IEEE754 are designed for performing fast high accuracy transformations on matrices. I have no complaints about that. But the default arbitrary number format should be able to store exact integers and ratio's.

Gibbon1 8y ago

You don't need an exact number but customer data is universally decimal. Soon as you blindly convert that to IEE754 everything is now broken.

coddingtonbear 8y ago
Is it really, though? I'm honestly struggling to think of a non-currency situation in which fractional customer data necessarily be handled as a decimal value -- and, honestly, even if the availability heuristic might make them seem more common than they are, I'd be astonished if even a single percent of general calculations programmers collectively ask computers to perform are involving currency. Most real-life situations just don't even inherently _have_ that kind of precision, let alone need it. Seriously, I can't think of a time when I've needed to store a coordinate or a person's height as a decimal value to prevent something from being broken.
tedunangst 8y ago
My 5/8s wrench disagrees. Happens to store quite nicely in a float, however.

dkarl 8y ago

People do different kinds of work, so there are programmers who experience it both ways, 99% of the time floats are good solution or 99% of the time floats are an incorrect solution. Because of history and language support, classes and other resources for learning to program teach you to use floating-point numbers and don't bother with alternatives. As a result you have a lot of programmers who default to treating every number with a dot in it as floating point number, and they get burned by it, and instead of realizing it's just a gap in their education that they can correct, they treat overuse of floats as a mistaken industry-wide consensus that needs to be overturned.

zokier 8y ago

I think there is argument to be made for high-level languages defaulting for arbitrary precision math ("make it correct first, fast second"). But considering that we are still fumbling around with fixed-width integers and that is much simpler domain after all, I don't hold my breath on "solving" the problem of reals any time soon.

Gibbon1 8y ago
That's exactly my point, why is the default a lossy format? And consider the distinction between variables and calculations. Formats like IEEE754 are designed for performing fast high accuracy transformations on matrices. I have no complaints about that. But the default arbitrary number format should be able to store exact integers and ratio's.