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Lets start with removing pocket and installing unlock origin by default. I'll believe you. And I say this as a loyal user since 2006.,

by fxfan 8y ago

ForHackernews 8y ago
I honestly do not understand why so many people are angry about Pocket: https://help.getpocket.com/article/1142-firefox-new-tab-recommendations https://help.getpocket.com/article/1142-firefox-new-tab-reco... > Important Note: Neither Mozilla nor Pocket receives a copy of your browser history. The entire process of sorting and filtering which stories you should see happens locally in your copy of Firefox. Do you think they're lying? Do you just hate the idea of any built-in browser integration with proprietary services?
- knob 8y ago
  > Do you just hate the idea of any built-in browser integration with proprietary services? Yes. I hate the idea of any built-in browser integration with proprietary services.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    Do you feel the same way about including Google as the default search engine? If not, why not?
    - rayuela 8y ago
      Switching to a different default search engine is trivial. Removing pocket not so much...
      - SamuelAdams 8y ago
        About:config Pocket.enabled Set to false Seems pretty simple to me.
        GordonS 8y ago
        Trivial for your average HN user, but "normal" users can't be expected to go poking around in an undiscoverable settings feature that warns them about dragons.
    - paulddraper 8y ago
      Exactly. I don't have a problem Google or Pocket defaults. But if I did, Google seems 100x the larger problem.
  - Animats 8y ago
    Exactly. I stopped trusting Mozilla when Pocket went in. I just "upgraded" Firefox to make it shut up, and I spent 15 minutes checking the privacy options to see if they were sneaking anything in. I still don't see a way to totally remove "Sync". I don't want the browser talking to any site that's not absolutely necessary to display the page. Period.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      > I don't want the browser talking to any site that's not absolutely necessary to display the page. Period. We've probably already lost that war, because almost all sites today include hundreds of kilobytes of extraneous javascript tracking cruft, and blocking it will frequently break the page display. At least Mozilla is trying to help on that front with their privacy tools and container tabs.
  - GordonS 8y ago
    I actually love Pocket, finding it great for organising my many bookmarks - but at the same time, I don't want proprietary services built into Firefox. IMO, Pocket should be an extension, same as any other. Though I wouldn't even mind if the Firefox installer asked if I wanted to install this extension during installation, treating it as a kind of "Mozilla recommended" extension.
- lucideer 8y ago
  They're not lying, they're just missing the point. 1. I don't want recommendations, I didn't ask for recommendations. Having it as a feature that can be enabled for pocket-users might be defensible, opt-out isn't. 2. Even if they're somehow keeping your full browser history on your machine for processing (which is an irrelevant point anyway since it's often synced with your Firefox account anyway), the point is they're collecting data on your personal preferences. The raw data isn't the point, the generated metadata representing a personal profile of you is. It's the processing, regardless of where it takes place, that is objectionable in itself. Doing that processing at all in any form is the antithesis of what Mozilla claims they stand for in this article.
  - TheRealPomax 8y ago
    Interesting thesis but, 1. turn them off. Like any other application on the planet, you get some defaults and you turn on/off what you want, yourself, if what you want is different from the default. Settings => Home => Firefox Home Content. There's even a settings shortcut on the new tab view to take you to those settings, so turn it off first and see if you feel better now that you'll never see pocket ever again. 2. No it's not, that makes no sense. Processing your local behaviour, and never sending that information to anyone else, is not "the antithesis of what Mozilla stands for" in the slightest. What do you think happens here? Do you think they're sending that metadata to pocket, which then does _more_ processing on their end to match your preferences to recommendations? Because if so: that's not what happens, and it's time to read up on how pocket recommendations actually work to see if you're upset with them for a legitimate reason or whether you just completely misunderstood how this works.
    - lucideer 8y ago
      1. my objection was to it being opt-out. "Turn it off" is not a valid solution to that. I'm wondering if you read my comment fully? And it's not just me. You're saying that Mozilla is expecting all users to opt-out to protect themselves... from Mozilla itself. By Mozilla claims to be protecting those users... 2. you say it's not the antithesis of what they stand for but you've given no reasoning. Why is Mozilla compiling a personal profile of my browsing preferences not the antithesis of what they stand for? What have I said that isn't in line with the technicalities of how Pocket works? Does Pocket not compile a personal profile of my browsing preferences? I'm sorry, I normally try to avoid combative tone on hn, but you've written quite a substantive comment all of which simply states that the points in my comment are incorrect with no reasoning behind those statements. It's not really logically cohesive...
doe88 8y ago
Don't like Pocket, don't use it. I personally find it convenient, I'm not at the point I consider everything I browse equally sensitive. There are pages I don't consider being particularly sensitive I want to read later without cluttering my tabs. I really understand peoples wanting to protect everything, it's a valid choice, but I'm not there yet personally, thus for me Pocket is useful.
- fxfan 8y ago
  I don't hate pocket. I like it! I just don't think it is in sync with their posturing.

Lets start with removing pocket and installing unlock origin by default. I'll believe you. And I say this as a loyal user since 2006.,

by fxfan 8y ago

Lets start with removing pocket and installing unlock origin by default. I'll believe you. And I say this as a loyal user since 2006.,

ForHackernews 8y ago

I honestly do not understand why so many people are angry about Pocket: https://help.getpocket.com/article/1142-firefox-new-tab-recommendations https://help.getpocket.com/article/1142-firefox-new-tab-reco... > Important Note: Neither Mozilla nor Pocket receives a copy of your browser history. The entire process of sorting and filtering which stories you should see happens locally in your copy of Firefox. Do you think they're lying? Do you just hate the idea of any built-in browser integration with proprietary services?

knob 8y ago
> Do you just hate the idea of any built-in browser integration with proprietary services? Yes. I hate the idea of any built-in browser integration with proprietary services.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Do you feel the same way about including Google as the default search engine? If not, why not?
  - rayuela 8y ago
    Switching to a different default search engine is trivial. Removing pocket not so much...
    - SamuelAdams 8y ago
      About:config Pocket.enabled Set to false Seems pretty simple to me.
      - GordonS 8y ago
        Trivial for your average HN user, but "normal" users can't be expected to go poking around in an undiscoverable settings feature that warns them about dragons.
  - paulddraper 8y ago
    Exactly. I don't have a problem Google or Pocket defaults. But if I did, Google seems 100x the larger problem.
- Animats 8y ago
  Exactly. I stopped trusting Mozilla when Pocket went in. I just "upgraded" Firefox to make it shut up, and I spent 15 minutes checking the privacy options to see if they were sneaking anything in. I still don't see a way to totally remove "Sync". I don't want the browser talking to any site that's not absolutely necessary to display the page. Period.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    > I don't want the browser talking to any site that's not absolutely necessary to display the page. Period. We've probably already lost that war, because almost all sites today include hundreds of kilobytes of extraneous javascript tracking cruft, and blocking it will frequently break the page display. At least Mozilla is trying to help on that front with their privacy tools and container tabs.
- GordonS 8y ago
  I actually love Pocket, finding it great for organising my many bookmarks - but at the same time, I don't want proprietary services built into Firefox. IMO, Pocket should be an extension, same as any other. Though I wouldn't even mind if the Firefox installer asked if I wanted to install this extension during installation, treating it as a kind of "Mozilla recommended" extension.
lucideer 8y ago
They're not lying, they're just missing the point. 1. I don't want recommendations, I didn't ask for recommendations. Having it as a feature that can be enabled for pocket-users might be defensible, opt-out isn't. 2. Even if they're somehow keeping your full browser history on your machine for processing (which is an irrelevant point anyway since it's often synced with your Firefox account anyway), the point is they're collecting data on your personal preferences. The raw data isn't the point, the generated metadata representing a personal profile of you is. It's the processing, regardless of where it takes place, that is objectionable in itself. Doing that processing at all in any form is the antithesis of what Mozilla claims they stand for in this article.
- TheRealPomax 8y ago
  Interesting thesis but, 1. turn them off. Like any other application on the planet, you get some defaults and you turn on/off what you want, yourself, if what you want is different from the default. Settings => Home => Firefox Home Content. There's even a settings shortcut on the new tab view to take you to those settings, so turn it off first and see if you feel better now that you'll never see pocket ever again. 2. No it's not, that makes no sense. Processing your local behaviour, and never sending that information to anyone else, is not "the antithesis of what Mozilla stands for" in the slightest. What do you think happens here? Do you think they're sending that metadata to pocket, which then does _more_ processing on their end to match your preferences to recommendations? Because if so: that's not what happens, and it's time to read up on how pocket recommendations actually work to see if you're upset with them for a legitimate reason or whether you just completely misunderstood how this works.
  - lucideer 8y ago
    1. my objection was to it being opt-out. "Turn it off" is not a valid solution to that. I'm wondering if you read my comment fully? And it's not just me. You're saying that Mozilla is expecting all users to opt-out to protect themselves... from Mozilla itself. By Mozilla claims to be protecting those users... 2. you say it's not the antithesis of what they stand for but you've given no reasoning. Why is Mozilla compiling a personal profile of my browsing preferences not the antithesis of what they stand for? What have I said that isn't in line with the technicalities of how Pocket works? Does Pocket not compile a personal profile of my browsing preferences? I'm sorry, I normally try to avoid combative tone on hn, but you've written quite a substantive comment all of which simply states that the points in my comment are incorrect with no reasoning behind those statements. It's not really logically cohesive...

doe88 8y ago

Don't like Pocket, don't use it. I personally find it convenient, I'm not at the point I consider everything I browse equally sensitive. There are pages I don't consider being particularly sensitive I want to read later without cluttering my tabs. I really understand peoples wanting to protect everything, it's a valid choice, but I'm not there yet personally, thus for me Pocket is useful.

fxfan 8y ago
I don't hate pocket. I like it! I just don't think it is in sync with their posturing.