7 ms·

My college education was pretty honest about the atrocities of the USA. I get to openly post about politics all day on facebook without any fear of reprisal. Pr

by quxbar 8y ago

My college education was pretty honest about the atrocities of the USA. I get to openly post about politics all day on facebook without any fear of reprisal. Pretty different from a country with a whole dictionary of secret codewords used to discuss politics and history. There is no 'both sides', there's just your self-pity - the people you call censorious apparatchiks are just people who don't respect your opinion. You mistake being unpopular for being persecuted, which is common for privileged engineering types like us.

xfs 8y ago
The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade. -Julian Assange
- MrTmp1 8y ago
  Cool quote. But it's not the same discussion . To make it relevant would be to ask : Once China works the same way at the same scope (Somehow assuming they don't) Will they drop the censor ?
- benrbray 8y ago
  Can you say anything to back up the claim that "speech still has power" in China? That seems to go against what the pro-censorship commenters are saying, which is that most people in China know all the bad stuff anyway and just don't care. If that's true, it seems like words have lost all power.
scottlocklin 8y ago
You don't post political views which threaten the US regime. The fact that you don't fall under the eye of Sauron just means you're a good citizen, just like the Chinese guy in the article. For the love of god, Facebook employs former Stasi agents to police people's comments. Again, US colleges definitely engage in ritual denunciations of the bad old days. So do the Chinese. US colleges engage in political indoctrination that talks about problematic issues in the modern US which the US regime wants changed. So do the Chinese. The only real difference is the US doesn't have to be as brutal and obvious as the Chinese to police thought. It does occasionally look a lot like old Maoist struggle sessions, but somehow people never make that connection.
- wybiral 8y ago
  I regularly support the idea impeaching our leader in public and participate in a democratic process of electing representatives to enact policies that I want to see change. EDIT: As a matter of fact, we just had a Muslim congress-woman openly discuss goals to impeach our sitting president. Things work differently in a democracy with representatives than they do in an authoritarian dictatorship.
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    The president isn't "our leader." And as I keep saying, yes, the US system isn't as brutal and obvious (in most cases; policing online content, it is) as China. As far as I know, they only attempt to kill American citizens who deviate from the party line when they live abroad. Let me give you a bit of obvious propaganda by people who really do run the country: https://twitter.com/Raytheon/status/1021446302515847168 https://twitter.com/Raytheon/status/1021446302515847168 Perfect embodiment of ruling caste self regard ... we blow up brown people ... but at least we are real smart and we ain't sexist!
    - wybiral 8y ago
      > The president isn't "our leader." Yes, exactly. Because this isn't an authoritarian dictatorship. We have democracy. We vote in representatives. We discuss policies with peers and campaign for people who represent changes we want to see. That's the difference and that's what our free speech protects. EDIT: > Let me give you a bit of obvious propaganda by people who really do run the country Are you being censored for speaking up against Raytheon though? Are you being stopped from electing politicians who would curtail their power or regulate them in some way?

by quxbar 8y ago

xfs 8y ago

The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade. -Julian Assange

MrTmp1 8y ago
Cool quote. But it's not the same discussion . To make it relevant would be to ask : Once China works the same way at the same scope (Somehow assuming they don't) Will they drop the censor ?
benrbray 8y ago
Can you say anything to back up the claim that "speech still has power" in China? That seems to go against what the pro-censorship commenters are saying, which is that most people in China know all the bad stuff anyway and just don't care. If that's true, it seems like words have lost all power.

scottlocklin 8y ago

You don't post political views which threaten the US regime. The fact that you don't fall under the eye of Sauron just means you're a good citizen, just like the Chinese guy in the article. For the love of god, Facebook employs former Stasi agents to police people's comments. Again, US colleges definitely engage in ritual denunciations of the bad old days. So do the Chinese. US colleges engage in political indoctrination that talks about problematic issues in the modern US which the US regime wants changed. So do the Chinese. The only real difference is the US doesn't have to be as brutal and obvious as the Chinese to police thought. It does occasionally look a lot like old Maoist struggle sessions, but somehow people never make that connection.

wybiral 8y ago
I regularly support the idea impeaching our leader in public and participate in a democratic process of electing representatives to enact policies that I want to see change. EDIT: As a matter of fact, we just had a Muslim congress-woman openly discuss goals to impeach our sitting president. Things work differently in a democracy with representatives than they do in an authoritarian dictatorship.
- scottlocklin 8y ago
  The president isn't "our leader." And as I keep saying, yes, the US system isn't as brutal and obvious (in most cases; policing online content, it is) as China. As far as I know, they only attempt to kill American citizens who deviate from the party line when they live abroad. Let me give you a bit of obvious propaganda by people who really do run the country: https://twitter.com/Raytheon/status/1021446302515847168 https://twitter.com/Raytheon/status/1021446302515847168 Perfect embodiment of ruling caste self regard ... we blow up brown people ... but at least we are real smart and we ain't sexist!
  - wybiral 8y ago
    > The president isn't "our leader." Yes, exactly. Because this isn't an authoritarian dictatorship. We have democracy. We vote in representatives. We discuss policies with peers and campaign for people who represent changes we want to see. That's the difference and that's what our free speech protects. EDIT: > Let me give you a bit of obvious propaganda by people who really do run the country Are you being censored for speaking up against Raytheon though? Are you being stopped from electing politicians who would curtail their power or regulate them in some way?