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Just out of curiosity, do you also think its totally fine to treat fat people negatively? Ugh. The amount of vitriol in this whole comment section towards smoke

Just out of curiosity, do you also think its totally fine to treat fat people negatively? Ugh. The amount of vitriol in this whole comment section towards smokers is disturbing. Almost every smoker I know picked up the habit in their early teens. A habit which is extremely addicting, and very hard to kick, more so the longer you've been doing it. Being shitty to them certainly wont help. At the macro level first they were shuffled out doors, which was fine but sucks when the weather is poor. Then it was no smoking in bars, in your own home, within 50 meters of a door (good luck in a packed in city). Then it was "we don't hire smokers, even ones who don't smoke while they are at work". Then it was oh you switched to vaping because it doesn't smell as bad, has a much lower health risk but we're even going to be shitty to you for trying that. Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency, the same as we do for the poor, the overweight, members of the opposite sex, those of different gender identities and sexual preferences and so on and so forth. Or would you prefer everyone go back to being shitty to anyone else who wasn't a carbon copy of themselves?

ip26 8y ago
I am generally on your side of the fence- I think we forget smokers are also people- but where you choose to smoke is still an active choice. Most of the ire I see directed at smokers is for smoking around pregnant women, infants, and in public places they aren't supposed to be smoking. And for all the cigarette butts. All of these things are active choices.
- snarfy 8y ago
  By calling it a choice you misunderstand what the word addiction means. It's like blaming an overweight person for being overweight because they could not make the choice to put the fork down. It's a choice, right?
  - ip26 8y ago
    Read my post again. WHERE you smoke is a choice. And your behavior & deference while smoking is also a choice.
gruez 8y ago
>Then it was no smoking in bars, in your own home, within 50 meters of a door (good luck in a packed in city). what country/city is this? most places I've been don't have such limits or is limited to 9m at most >Then it was "we don't hire smokers, even ones who don't smoke while they are at work". Then it was oh you switched to vaping because it doesn't smell as bad, has a much lower health risk but we're even going to be shitty to you for trying that. I'm skeptical that this happens at any significant level. >Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency, the same as we do for the poor, the overweight, members of the opposite sex, those of different gender identities and sexual preferences and so on and so forth. some of the things in the list are unlike the others. smoking/overweight: you have control over, and can take steps to stop it everything else: you have no control over
- krisroadruck 8y ago
  50 meters was an exaggeration. 25 feet is common. I can assure you that the "we don't hire smokers" is indeed a thing. It became so much of a thing in the 90s that many states had to actually pass laws preventing the descrimination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoker_protection_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoker_protection_law 21 states still do not prevent such discrimination, with Washington being one of them. You'd be shocked at how many jobs in the Seattle area discriminate against smokers. point made on the choice vs no choice thing but my point wasn't about choice it was about how we as a society have collectively decided for the most part not to shit on people and that includes those with an addiction. Also minor nit but being poor is not completely outside of ones control in the majority of cases.
CrowFly 8y ago
I'm neutral on smokers. I don't like fat people because they take up more than their fair share of space on public transit, airplanes, sidewalks, hospitals, etc.
bpizzi 8y ago
> Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency Purely anecdotal, but this is happening far too often: it's a bad weather day, waiting under the 5m long city tram station's getting protected from the rain, then someone comes and sit right next to me, lightning it's damn cigarette like there was absolutely no problem. This is the kind of behavior that makes you actually forget that "these folks are people and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decendy", because they clearly don't give a shit about others themselves.
- krisroadruck 8y ago
  So to clarify... its rainy outside. You don't want to get wet. They don't want to get wet. They are only allowed to smoke outside. I'm not saying its not a dick move mind you, but maybe consider that they too wanted to be comfortable and outside is the only place they are allowed to smoke.
  - bpizzi 8y ago
    Nope, they can smoke at home, literally 5min before (the are grown adults). Or walk to the other side on the street, 10 meters away, and smoke under a shelter. Or maybe just skip that one cigarette. Or bring an umbrella. I'll stop here. No, there's no excuses. It's just a case of not having any interest in the other human right next to you.
    - krisroadruck 8y ago
      So in your mind, the only way this guy can not be an asshole is if he prioritizes your preferences over his own, but you don't apply this same litmus to yourself. You could walk across the street. You could bring an umbrella. You could decide that second hand smoke from a single cigarette in an open area outside will have effectively zero health consequences for you and maybe to just let it go this one time. Again I actually agree with you that he is kinda being a dick, the point of my previous comment and this one is I find it odd that you have one set of standards for how others should treat your desires and a completely separate one for the way you handle theirs.
darkpuma 8y ago
If fat people were misting other people with lard and dropping half eaten sandwiches on the ground everywhere they went, I assure you they'd get as much hate as smokers. The treatment smokers get is well deserved. They are not victims.

ip26 8y ago

I am generally on your side of the fence- I think we forget smokers are also people- but where you choose to smoke is still an active choice. Most of the ire I see directed at smokers is for smoking around pregnant women, infants, and in public places they aren't supposed to be smoking. And for all the cigarette butts. All of these things are active choices.

snarfy 8y ago
By calling it a choice you misunderstand what the word addiction means. It's like blaming an overweight person for being overweight because they could not make the choice to put the fork down. It's a choice, right?
- ip26 8y ago
  Read my post again. WHERE you smoke is a choice. And your behavior & deference while smoking is also a choice.

gruez 8y ago

>Then it was no smoking in bars, in your own home, within 50 meters of a door (good luck in a packed in city). what country/city is this? most places I've been don't have such limits or is limited to 9m at most >Then it was "we don't hire smokers, even ones who don't smoke while they are at work". Then it was oh you switched to vaping because it doesn't smell as bad, has a much lower health risk but we're even going to be shitty to you for trying that. I'm skeptical that this happens at any significant level. >Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency, the same as we do for the poor, the overweight, members of the opposite sex, those of different gender identities and sexual preferences and so on and so forth. some of the things in the list are unlike the others. smoking/overweight: you have control over, and can take steps to stop it everything else: you have no control over

krisroadruck 8y ago
50 meters was an exaggeration. 25 feet is common. I can assure you that the "we don't hire smokers" is indeed a thing. It became so much of a thing in the 90s that many states had to actually pass laws preventing the descrimination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoker_protection_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoker_protection_law 21 states still do not prevent such discrimination, with Washington being one of them. You'd be shocked at how many jobs in the Seattle area discriminate against smokers. point made on the choice vs no choice thing but my point wasn't about choice it was about how we as a society have collectively decided for the most part not to shit on people and that includes those with an addiction. Also minor nit but being poor is not completely outside of ones control in the majority of cases.

CrowFly 8y ago

I'm neutral on smokers. I don't like fat people because they take up more than their fair share of space on public transit, airplanes, sidewalks, hospitals, etc.

bpizzi 8y ago

> Maybe, just maybe we should try to remember that these folks are PEOPLE and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decency Purely anecdotal, but this is happening far too often: it's a bad weather day, waiting under the 5m long city tram station's getting protected from the rain, then someone comes and sit right next to me, lightning it's damn cigarette like there was absolutely no problem. This is the kind of behavior that makes you actually forget that "these folks are people and still deserve to be treated with a modicum of decendy", because they clearly don't give a shit about others themselves.

krisroadruck 8y ago
So to clarify... its rainy outside. You don't want to get wet. They don't want to get wet. They are only allowed to smoke outside. I'm not saying its not a dick move mind you, but maybe consider that they too wanted to be comfortable and outside is the only place they are allowed to smoke.
- bpizzi 8y ago
  Nope, they can smoke at home, literally 5min before (the are grown adults). Or walk to the other side on the street, 10 meters away, and smoke under a shelter. Or maybe just skip that one cigarette. Or bring an umbrella. I'll stop here. No, there's no excuses. It's just a case of not having any interest in the other human right next to you.
  - krisroadruck 8y ago
    So in your mind, the only way this guy can not be an asshole is if he prioritizes your preferences over his own, but you don't apply this same litmus to yourself. You could walk across the street. You could bring an umbrella. You could decide that second hand smoke from a single cigarette in an open area outside will have effectively zero health consequences for you and maybe to just let it go this one time. Again I actually agree with you that he is kinda being a dick, the point of my previous comment and this one is I find it odd that you have one set of standards for how others should treat your desires and a completely separate one for the way you handle theirs.

darkpuma 8y ago

If fat people were misting other people with lard and dropping half eaten sandwiches on the ground everywhere they went, I assure you they'd get as much hate as smokers. The treatment smokers get is well deserved. They are not victims.