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I think the medical field will be one that benefits most from AI. Routine surgeries will be able to be done by medical robots like those being developed at Cal

I think the medical field will be one that benefits most from AI. Routine surgeries will be able to be done by medical robots like those being developed at Cal Berkeley with human supervision if something unexpected comes up This will shift the supply and demand equation and lower medical costs and make life easier for doctors https://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/medical-robots/would-you-trust-a-robot-surgeon-to-operate-on-you https://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/medical-robots/would-you-...

jointpdf 8y ago
Even in the presence of superhuman medial AI, we still should insist on human experts (i.e. highly-trained doctors) not just in the loop, but at the center of it. This adds another required skill to the repertoire of doctors—understanding the AI systems that they are utilizing (overseeing?), and communicating risk/results to patients. In other words, this still leaves the same problem—students getting crushed by the medical education gauntlet.
cm2187 8y ago
Using AI for sugery would terrify me. Some algorithm that does it right 95% of the time and in 5% of the time would do something completely random and inexplicable...
- Farradfahren 8y ago
  The AI concluded, that nutrition absorbtion would be optimized if your colon was restructured into..
- tossaccount123 8y ago
  Anything in the medical field would have to be extensively tested, this isn't a web app where "move fast and break things" applies and it would primarily be used with routine surgeries and would default to human intervention under uncertainty. Most of these surgeries are basically identical and the AI could improve by sharing data with all surgeries performed around the world. Not to mention how bad humans are at surgery, especially when fatigued. AI is the only way to fix healthcare, a doctor/surgeon can work effectively only a few hours a day and takes nearly 30 years to educate from childhood. An AI could do surgery and diagnose patients nearly 24/7, 7 days a week.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    I agree that medecine is one of the only domains that didn't industrialize, remaining an artisanal profession, with a highly skilled, highly paid professional in front of every customer. But I am more concerned about the failure modes of AI.
- dexterdog 8y ago
  Sounds about the same or maybe better than what we have now.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    But my point is that in that 5% of cases (or whatever the % will be), the surgeon is not going to do something wild and completely inapropriate.
    - dexterdog 8y ago
      If they AI is doing something completely inappropriate in 5% of cases it is certainly not ready for real world use yet.
- c0nfused 8y ago
  Don't forget that in that 5% every time you, the robot company, are going to get sued by either the patient or the hospital operating your product.
- vletal 8y ago
  That is not how ai works. Such algorithm would not make it to an actual surgery. Even humans make mistakes. The advantage The point is to get the model to perform better than humans.
  - throwawayjava 8y ago
    > the model Surgical robots -- at least the ones that actually exist and work today -- are designed more like traditional safety-critical robotics platforms and less like a one-off case study for a nice visualization/table for an end-to-end deep RL paper. There is no "the model".
- rmrfrmrf 8y ago
  When it learns through reinforcement that the best treatment for tachycardia is smashing the patient's skull in.
i_am_nomad 8y ago
That would give a new layer of meaning to the word “hacking.”
robertAngst 8y ago
>This will shift the supply and demand equation and lower medical costs and make life easier for doctors Its time to start shifting this discussion over to the name of the profession- >Physician and >Pharmacist These jobs are not often limited by the amount of physical and mental labor, but often by bureaucratic paperwork to get the government mandated approval. My wife is a Doctor of Physical Therapy, and Physicians have the stamp needed to get a patient treatment. $380M has been paid by physicians to politicians to entrench their position. It seems we need to AI and remove the bureaucracy. This is true for Pharma, insurance, and hospitals. That AI will reduce costs. https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

jointpdf 8y ago

Even in the presence of superhuman medial AI, we still should insist on human experts (i.e. highly-trained doctors) not just in the loop, but at the center of it. This adds another required skill to the repertoire of doctors—understanding the AI systems that they are utilizing (overseeing?), and communicating risk/results to patients. In other words, this still leaves the same problem—students getting crushed by the medical education gauntlet.

cm2187 8y ago

Using AI for sugery would terrify me. Some algorithm that does it right 95% of the time and in 5% of the time would do something completely random and inexplicable...

Farradfahren 8y ago
The AI concluded, that nutrition absorbtion would be optimized if your colon was restructured into..
tossaccount123 8y ago
Anything in the medical field would have to be extensively tested, this isn't a web app where "move fast and break things" applies and it would primarily be used with routine surgeries and would default to human intervention under uncertainty. Most of these surgeries are basically identical and the AI could improve by sharing data with all surgeries performed around the world. Not to mention how bad humans are at surgery, especially when fatigued. AI is the only way to fix healthcare, a doctor/surgeon can work effectively only a few hours a day and takes nearly 30 years to educate from childhood. An AI could do surgery and diagnose patients nearly 24/7, 7 days a week.
- cm2187 8y ago
  I agree that medecine is one of the only domains that didn't industrialize, remaining an artisanal profession, with a highly skilled, highly paid professional in front of every customer. But I am more concerned about the failure modes of AI.
dexterdog 8y ago
Sounds about the same or maybe better than what we have now.
- cm2187 8y ago
  But my point is that in that 5% of cases (or whatever the % will be), the surgeon is not going to do something wild and completely inapropriate.
  - dexterdog 8y ago
    If they AI is doing something completely inappropriate in 5% of cases it is certainly not ready for real world use yet.
c0nfused 8y ago
Don't forget that in that 5% every time you, the robot company, are going to get sued by either the patient or the hospital operating your product.
vletal 8y ago
That is not how ai works. Such algorithm would not make it to an actual surgery. Even humans make mistakes. The advantage The point is to get the model to perform better than humans.
- throwawayjava 8y ago
  > the model Surgical robots -- at least the ones that actually exist and work today -- are designed more like traditional safety-critical robotics platforms and less like a one-off case study for a nice visualization/table for an end-to-end deep RL paper. There is no "the model".
rmrfrmrf 8y ago
When it learns through reinforcement that the best treatment for tachycardia is smashing the patient's skull in.

i_am_nomad 8y ago

That would give a new layer of meaning to the word “hacking.”

robertAngst 8y ago

>This will shift the supply and demand equation and lower medical costs and make life easier for doctors Its time to start shifting this discussion over to the name of the profession- >Physician and >Pharmacist These jobs are not often limited by the amount of physical and mental labor, but often by bureaucratic paperwork to get the government mandated approval. My wife is a Doctor of Physical Therapy, and Physicians have the stamp needed to get a patient treatment. $380M has been paid by physicians to politicians to entrench their position. It seems we need to AI and remove the bureaucracy. This is true for Pharma, insurance, and hospitals. That AI will reduce costs. https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s