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Everybody knows who the smokers are, even if they don't witness them smoking, so this old selection bias argument doesn't apply. (It's because smokers univers

Everybody knows who the smokers are, even if they don't witness them smoking, so this old selection bias argument doesn't apply. (It's because smokers universally reek.)

baddox 8y ago
Are you saying it’s inconsiderate for people to not smell how you want them to smell? I don’t think I have any right to expect other people to smell a certain way or to not have a detectable smell, barring obvious extreme cases of avoidable bad hygiene.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  You know that smell is literally fumes that cause cancer, right? Any nobody said it was infringing on any rights - we said it was inconsiderate.
  - baddox 8y ago
    I’m sure there is some cancer risk from simply smelling the clothes of a smoker, but I would need to see some research of the magnitude of the risk. I would be shocked if it’s enough to even be measurable. I didn’t use the word “right” to imply that any rights were being violated. I used it to claim what I believe to be reasonable expectations for other people’s behavior, which seems like a natural definition for what behavior is “inconsiderate.”
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      > inconsiderate: thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others. Smokers are inconsiderate because they thoughtlessly cause harm or inconvenience to others by smelling offensive. They brush off the objections of all non-smokers and tell the rest of the world to fuck off because they selfishly prefer smoking to not causing olfactory offense.
      - baddox 8y ago
        I assure you that not all non-smokers find the mere smell of a smoker’s clothes as offensive as you apparently do. There are lots of smells that I don’t like, particularly the smells of certain foods. I don’t call people who cook or eat those foods inconsiderate.
        darkpuma 8y ago
        The stench of a smoker is widely considered offensive. This is not some weird personal quirk on my part, and I'm certain you know that.
        woobar 8y ago
        Even smokers in other threads here complain how cigarette butts smell.
      - code_duck 8y ago
        This is how I feel about almost all scented products - shampoo, air freshener, cologne, incense. However, many people think they are being polite by spreading these offensive chemicals on themselves with the intention of making other people inhale them. It’s very difficult to explain to people that their scents are making you ill and forcing you to leave the room, rinse your sinuses or stay 5+ feet away from them. Mercifully some workplaces have no-fragrance policies. Elsewhere, my health-driven preferences get absolutely no attention or respect. People get offended and embarrassed especially since they think they are doing this to make themselves more presentable. It is far better to not say anything. Oddly, cigarette smells and body odor do not bother me at all. So, given that attitude, hope you don’t use dryer sheets.
        headstorm 8y ago
        I couldn't agree more!
      - headstorm 8y ago
        Since this comment has gone far afield of the original topic (cigarette butts as litter), I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires.
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    You never drove in a ICE vehicle, took a plane, used electricity or used electronics or any other industrially created goods?
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      But I didn't claim anything about myself.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > "Are you saying it’s inconsiderate for people to not smell how you want them to smell?" That's not what I was saying, but actually that's also true. Good point. Smelling like a smoker is itself inconsiderate behavior. What I was actually saying is that smokers are generally inconsiderate people. This can be generally observed by interacting with the general public and noticing that people who smell like smokers are almost always inconsiderate people. You don't need to witness an inconsiderate person smoking to know they're a smoker, because the human nose can detect smokers easily. And just so we're clear, not all inconsiderate people are smokers, but very nearly all smokers are inconsiderate. Now that I think about this more, there is a plausible relationship here: everybody knows that smoking makes you smell awful, so only people who are inclined towards being inconsiderate will pick up the habit. > "right" In most free countries, it is your right to be inconsiderate. It's not the right of any smoker to be free of criticism.
  - baddox 8y ago
    > Smelling like a smoker is itself inconsiderate behavior. I will straight up disagree with you there, and we can probably avoid a semantic argument over what “inconsiderate” means and just call it a day. In summary, I think “inconsiderate” ought only apply to behaviors that sufficiently violate the expectations of society, or in other words, just because you don’t like a behavior does not mean that behavior is inconsiderate. The rest of your comment is fairly ridiculous. Surely you haven’t actually counted every smoker you have met. It’s much more likely that you are simply disproportionately noticing smokers who are bothering you.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      A smoker does not go undetected simply by being considerate, the smoker's smell will give them away no matter how they behave. And I am very far from the only person who's noticed the smoker/inconsiderate connection.

Everybody knows who the smokers are, even if they don't witness them smoking, so this old selection bias argument doesn't apply. (It's because smokers universally reek.)

baddox 8y ago

Are you saying it’s inconsiderate for people to not smell how you want them to smell? I don’t think I have any right to expect other people to smell a certain way or to not have a detectable smell, barring obvious extreme cases of avoidable bad hygiene.

chrisseaton 8y ago
You know that smell is literally fumes that cause cancer, right? Any nobody said it was infringing on any rights - we said it was inconsiderate.
- baddox 8y ago
  I’m sure there is some cancer risk from simply smelling the clothes of a smoker, but I would need to see some research of the magnitude of the risk. I would be shocked if it’s enough to even be measurable. I didn’t use the word “right” to imply that any rights were being violated. I used it to claim what I believe to be reasonable expectations for other people’s behavior, which seems like a natural definition for what behavior is “inconsiderate.”
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    > inconsiderate: thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others. Smokers are inconsiderate because they thoughtlessly cause harm or inconvenience to others by smelling offensive. They brush off the objections of all non-smokers and tell the rest of the world to fuck off because they selfishly prefer smoking to not causing olfactory offense.
    - baddox 8y ago
      I assure you that not all non-smokers find the mere smell of a smoker’s clothes as offensive as you apparently do. There are lots of smells that I don’t like, particularly the smells of certain foods. I don’t call people who cook or eat those foods inconsiderate.
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        The stench of a smoker is widely considered offensive. This is not some weird personal quirk on my part, and I'm certain you know that.
      - woobar 8y ago
        Even smokers in other threads here complain how cigarette butts smell.
    - code_duck 8y ago
      This is how I feel about almost all scented products - shampoo, air freshener, cologne, incense. However, many people think they are being polite by spreading these offensive chemicals on themselves with the intention of making other people inhale them. It’s very difficult to explain to people that their scents are making you ill and forcing you to leave the room, rinse your sinuses or stay 5+ feet away from them. Mercifully some workplaces have no-fragrance policies. Elsewhere, my health-driven preferences get absolutely no attention or respect. People get offended and embarrassed especially since they think they are doing this to make themselves more presentable. It is far better to not say anything. Oddly, cigarette smells and body odor do not bother me at all. So, given that attitude, hope you don’t use dryer sheets.
      - headstorm 8y ago
        I couldn't agree more!
    - headstorm 8y ago
      Since this comment has gone far afield of the original topic (cigarette butts as litter), I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  You never drove in a ICE vehicle, took a plane, used electricity or used electronics or any other industrially created goods?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    But I didn't claim anything about myself.
darkpuma 8y ago
> "Are you saying it’s inconsiderate for people to not smell how you want them to smell?" That's not what I was saying, but actually that's also true. Good point. Smelling like a smoker is itself inconsiderate behavior. What I was actually saying is that smokers are generally inconsiderate people. This can be generally observed by interacting with the general public and noticing that people who smell like smokers are almost always inconsiderate people. You don't need to witness an inconsiderate person smoking to know they're a smoker, because the human nose can detect smokers easily. And just so we're clear, not all inconsiderate people are smokers, but very nearly all smokers are inconsiderate. Now that I think about this more, there is a plausible relationship here: everybody knows that smoking makes you smell awful, so only people who are inclined towards being inconsiderate will pick up the habit. > "right" In most free countries, it is your right to be inconsiderate. It's not the right of any smoker to be free of criticism.
- baddox 8y ago
  > Smelling like a smoker is itself inconsiderate behavior. I will straight up disagree with you there, and we can probably avoid a semantic argument over what “inconsiderate” means and just call it a day. In summary, I think “inconsiderate” ought only apply to behaviors that sufficiently violate the expectations of society, or in other words, just because you don’t like a behavior does not mean that behavior is inconsiderate. The rest of your comment is fairly ridiculous. Surely you haven’t actually counted every smoker you have met. It’s much more likely that you are simply disproportionately noticing smokers who are bothering you.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    A smoker does not go undetected simply by being considerate, the smoker's smell will give them away no matter how they behave. And I am very far from the only person who's noticed the smoker/inconsiderate connection.