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>> “100 calories of ground beef contain 10 grams of protein, whereas 100 calories of baby spinach contain 12 grams of protein.” That’s disingenuous because 100

>> “100 calories of ground beef contain 10 grams of protein, whereas 100 calories of baby spinach contain 12 grams of protein.” That’s disingenuous because 100 grams of spinach only has 23 kcal and 2.9 g of proteins. To get 1 g of protein per lean body mass, which is about the minimum we need in order to avoid muscle loss or fragile bones, in my case I would need more than 70 g of proteins per day. If I were to eat only spinach, I would have to eat 2.5 Kg of spinach per day. Can you imagine yourself eating 2.5 Kg of spinach in a single day? You couldn’t, because it’s not possible. So no, spinach is not a better protein source than beef. And as a matter of fact you won’t find better protein sources than meat. Beans come closer, the problem with beans being that they are toxic and those proteins won’t get assimilated well. N.B. calories is a useless metric, don’t fall for it ;-)

ericmcer 8y ago
He also brings up the old “how do elephants get so big if plants don’t have protein?” Yeah well they eat 300lbs of plant matter a day, so like ~5lbs a day by human scale. Its almost like they are an entirely different animal with a different digestive system and nutritional needs.
- nanaboo 8y ago
  It's not only that. (A lot of) animals process/digest cellulose, humans can't. So that's one of the reasons cows can weigh 600-700 kg by just eating gras, which is insane. And which makes me question the vegan diet despite having watched a lot of the youtuber's Vegan Gains videos. I mean I am mostly vegan but that's due to shortage of cash.
black-tea 8y ago
Who told you that you need that much protein? The amount you're talking about is the one commonly used by body builders who are using steroids. That's an absurdly high protein intake for a normal person.
- ocharles 8y ago
  70g is definitely not "absurdly high". The British Nutrition Foundation recommends 0.75g per kg bodyweight, though it's unclear if that's lean or not (https://www.nutrition.org.uk/nutritionscience/nutrients-food-and-ingredients/protein.html https://www.nutrition.org.uk/nutritionscience/nutrients-food...). > The amount you're talking about is the one commonly used by body builders who are using steroids Sorry what? Those of us who lift and are trying to grow muscle take more protein, but don't just lump us in with steroid users. https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/ https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/ is an evidence based review on the subject.
  - black-tea 8y ago
    The seemed to be using the 1g per lb bodyweight which is the bodybuilding one but now I notice they omitted the unit. I assumed they were a 70lb person. I lift and I've found the 1g per lb to be excessive. My point about steroid users is that that's what they eat too.
- chronolitus 8y ago
  I'm not sure where you take your data from, 70g is not very far off the recommended intake for an average size male "Thus, 0.75 g/kg per day (0.6 × 1.25) is the recommended allowance of reference protein for young male adults." [1] Bodybuilders often do 2x their bodyweight, and more when counting the amount of grams to intake. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/
cageface 8y ago
Beans come closer, the problem with beans being that they are toxic and those proteins won’t get assimilated well. Sorry but this is just laughably wrong. Lectins in raw beans are toxic but they are completely destroyed by cooking. The healthiest populations on the planet all eat large quantities of legumes, the protein in which has a number of advantages compared to meat based sources.
- bad_user 8y ago
  The toxins in beans aren't eliminated entirely by cooking. So first of all the traditional cooking method for beans is being lost in modern cooking practices. Normally you have to soak the beans for about 24 hours before cooking and the cooking should involve several hours of boiling. With canned beans, which are semi-prepared, or via pressure cooking, which is shallow, the toxicity remains high. Also speaking from my own experience, there's no other food that gives me an acid reflux or diarrhea faster, or that bloats me any worse than beans do. Speaking of toxins, lectins aren't the only toxins to worry about. Alpha-amylase inhibitors, which are also found in grains, are another. Phytosterols are another. Also one example of a toxin that cannot be destroyed via cooking is the amino acid canavanine. Here's some studies on the subject: 1. "Toxicity of kidney bean (Phaseolus vulgaris) in rats: changes in intestinal permeability": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4018443 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4018443 This ones claims that kidney beans make rat intestines leaky, allowing bacteria and toxins to enter the body. 2. "Phytohaemagglutinin inhibits gastric acid but not pepsin secretion in conscious rats.": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11595455 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11595455 This claims that kidney bean lectin phytohemagglutinin (PHA) blocks production of stomach acid. This prevents proper digestion, especially of proteins. 3. "Kidney bean lectin-induced Escherichia coli overgrowth in the small intestine is blocked by GNA, a mannose-specific lectin": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14973681_Kidney_bean_lectin-induced_Escherichia_coli_overgrowth_in_the_small_intestine_is_blocked_by_GNA_a_mannose-specific_lectin https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14973681_Kidney_bea... This one claims that PHA ingestion “was accompanied by a reversible and PHA dose-dependent overgrowth with E. coli.” 4. "Precocious gut maturation and immune cell expansion by single dose feeding the lectin phytohaemagglutinin to suckling rats": https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/precocious-gut-maturation-and-immune-cell-expansion-by-single-dose-feeding-the-lectin-phytohaemagglutinin-to-suckling-rats/9C1EC6F5686BC4475EBC692B149D9E71 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n... This one claims that high doses of PHA disturb the mucus and shorten villi. 5. "Inhibition of starch digestion by α-amylase inhibitor reduces the efficiency of utilization of dietary proteins and lipids and retards the growth of rats": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15416107_Inhibition_of_starch_digestion_by_a-amylase_inhibitor_reduces_the_efficiency_of_utilization_of_dietary_proteins_and_lipids_and_retards_the_growth_of_rats https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15416107_Inhibition... And I quote: As starch digestion . . . was negligible . . . the cecum was practically blocked by solidified digesta. . . . [A]s the distension was not always sufficient, the [intestine] was occasionally ruptured and the rats had to be killed. 6. "Canavanine-induced longevity in mice may require diets with greater than 15.7% protein": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC554090/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC554090/ This is related to the amino acid canavanine, the toxin that cannot be destroyed by cooking. The study claims that cavanine can block the synthesis of nitric oxide, an important vascular, immune, and nervous system molecule, can interfere with ammonia disposal, can prevent reproduction in animals and possibly humans. 7. "Effects of L-canavanine on T cells may explain the induction of systemic lupus erythematosus by alfalfa.": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3155617 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3155617 This study claims that cavanine can induce the autoimmune disease lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus). --- Granted many of these studies have been done on mice, because doing experiments on humans is unethical and expensive and it's pretty obvious that humans aren't mice. But as you can see, the claim that beans are toxic is anything but laughable ;-) Also note that the "dose makes the poison". If you're eating beans once or twice per weak, like many of us do, you aren't going to suffer from it. Eat beans daily however and you're probably going to destroy your gut.

ericmcer 8y ago

He also brings up the old “how do elephants get so big if plants don’t have protein?” Yeah well they eat 300lbs of plant matter a day, so like ~5lbs a day by human scale. Its almost like they are an entirely different animal with a different digestive system and nutritional needs.

nanaboo 8y ago
It's not only that. (A lot of) animals process/digest cellulose, humans can't. So that's one of the reasons cows can weigh 600-700 kg by just eating gras, which is insane. And which makes me question the vegan diet despite having watched a lot of the youtuber's Vegan Gains videos. I mean I am mostly vegan but that's due to shortage of cash.

black-tea 8y ago

Who told you that you need that much protein? The amount you're talking about is the one commonly used by body builders who are using steroids. That's an absurdly high protein intake for a normal person.

ocharles 8y ago
70g is definitely not "absurdly high". The British Nutrition Foundation recommends 0.75g per kg bodyweight, though it's unclear if that's lean or not (https://www.nutrition.org.uk/nutritionscience/nutrients-food-and-ingredients/protein.html https://www.nutrition.org.uk/nutritionscience/nutrients-food...). > The amount you're talking about is the one commonly used by body builders who are using steroids Sorry what? Those of us who lift and are trying to grow muscle take more protein, but don't just lump us in with steroid users. https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/ https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/ is an evidence based review on the subject.
- black-tea 8y ago
  The seemed to be using the 1g per lb bodyweight which is the bodybuilding one but now I notice they omitted the unit. I assumed they were a 70lb person. I lift and I've found the 1g per lb to be excessive. My point about steroid users is that that's what they eat too.
chronolitus 8y ago
I'm not sure where you take your data from, 70g is not very far off the recommended intake for an average size male "Thus, 0.75 g/kg per day (0.6 × 1.25) is the recommended allowance of reference protein for young male adults." [1] Bodybuilders often do 2x their bodyweight, and more when counting the amount of grams to intake. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/

cageface 8y ago

Beans come closer, the problem with beans being that they are toxic and those proteins won’t get assimilated well. Sorry but this is just laughably wrong. Lectins in raw beans are toxic but they are completely destroyed by cooking. The healthiest populations on the planet all eat large quantities of legumes, the protein in which has a number of advantages compared to meat based sources.

bad_user 8y ago
The toxins in beans aren't eliminated entirely by cooking. So first of all the traditional cooking method for beans is being lost in modern cooking practices. Normally you have to soak the beans for about 24 hours before cooking and the cooking should involve several hours of boiling. With canned beans, which are semi-prepared, or via pressure cooking, which is shallow, the toxicity remains high. Also speaking from my own experience, there's no other food that gives me an acid reflux or diarrhea faster, or that bloats me any worse than beans do. Speaking of toxins, lectins aren't the only toxins to worry about. Alpha-amylase inhibitors, which are also found in grains, are another. Phytosterols are another. Also one example of a toxin that cannot be destroyed via cooking is the amino acid canavanine. Here's some studies on the subject: 1. "Toxicity of kidney bean (Phaseolus vulgaris) in rats: changes in intestinal permeability": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4018443 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4018443 This ones claims that kidney beans make rat intestines leaky, allowing bacteria and toxins to enter the body. 2. "Phytohaemagglutinin inhibits gastric acid but not pepsin secretion in conscious rats.": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11595455 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11595455 This claims that kidney bean lectin phytohemagglutinin (PHA) blocks production of stomach acid. This prevents proper digestion, especially of proteins. 3. "Kidney bean lectin-induced Escherichia coli overgrowth in the small intestine is blocked by GNA, a mannose-specific lectin": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14973681_Kidney_bean_lectin-induced_Escherichia_coli_overgrowth_in_the_small_intestine_is_blocked_by_GNA_a_mannose-specific_lectin https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14973681_Kidney_bea... This one claims that PHA ingestion “was accompanied by a reversible and PHA dose-dependent overgrowth with E. coli.” 4. "Precocious gut maturation and immune cell expansion by single dose feeding the lectin phytohaemagglutinin to suckling rats": https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/precocious-gut-maturation-and-immune-cell-expansion-by-single-dose-feeding-the-lectin-phytohaemagglutinin-to-suckling-rats/9C1EC6F5686BC4475EBC692B149D9E71 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n... This one claims that high doses of PHA disturb the mucus and shorten villi. 5. "Inhibition of starch digestion by α-amylase inhibitor reduces the efficiency of utilization of dietary proteins and lipids and retards the growth of rats": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15416107_Inhibition_of_starch_digestion_by_a-amylase_inhibitor_reduces_the_efficiency_of_utilization_of_dietary_proteins_and_lipids_and_retards_the_growth_of_rats https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15416107_Inhibition... And I quote: As starch digestion . . . was negligible . . . the cecum was practically blocked by solidified digesta. . . . [A]s the distension was not always sufficient, the [intestine] was occasionally ruptured and the rats had to be killed. 6. "Canavanine-induced longevity in mice may require diets with greater than 15.7% protein": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC554090/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC554090/ This is related to the amino acid canavanine, the toxin that cannot be destroyed by cooking. The study claims that cavanine can block the synthesis of nitric oxide, an important vascular, immune, and nervous system molecule, can interfere with ammonia disposal, can prevent reproduction in animals and possibly humans. 7. "Effects of L-canavanine on T cells may explain the induction of systemic lupus erythematosus by alfalfa.": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3155617 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3155617 This study claims that cavanine can induce the autoimmune disease lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus). --- Granted many of these studies have been done on mice, because doing experiments on humans is unethical and expensive and it's pretty obvious that humans aren't mice. But as you can see, the claim that beans are toxic is anything but laughable ;-) Also note that the "dose makes the poison". If you're eating beans once or twice per weak, like many of us do, you aren't going to suffer from it. Eat beans daily however and you're probably going to destroy your gut.